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This is a discussion on Hornady 10th Edition within the Reloading forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; I just ordered the brand new 10th Edition of the Hornady Handbook of Reloading because I've learned that it's the first major reloading manual that ...


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Old December 14th, 2016, 07:11 AM   #1
 
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Hornady 10th Edition

I just ordered the brand new 10th Edition of the Hornady Handbook of Reloading because I've learned that it's the first major reloading manual that includes my beloved Alliant BE-86.

A question for those who use the Hornady Handbook: are you able to use it with bullets from manufactures other than Hornady, or are you committed to using Hornady bullets?

Thus far, I've been relying on load data directly from Alliant. The Lyman handbook that I have is somewhat useful, but falls short because it doesn't include BE-86.

Thanks!

Pam



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Old December 14th, 2016, 07:15 AM   #2
 
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Pam,

Hornady books will only reference their own bullets.

I've recently discovered that making assumptions that all bullets are similar is not a good practice.

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Old December 16th, 2016, 05:15 AM   #3
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pampurrs View Post
A question for those who use the Hornady Handbook: are you able to use it with bullets from manufactures other than Hornady, or are you committed to using Hornady bullets?
Bullets of the same weight differ by several factors.
Length affects seating depth +/-.
Bearing surface, the part of the bullet that contacts the barrel increases/decreases drag.
Jacket composition affects drag, raising or lowering pressures.
Core density and hardness affects drag in the bore.

Etc.

Progressive propellants increase pressure and burn rate as drag increases, quite often by a lot. You can often get some utility as far as starting loads, but beyond that, you are on your own. Not a good place.
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Old December 16th, 2016, 05:35 AM   #4
 
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It looks like I'll be buying only Hornady bullets from now on .......

I always take the length of the bullet into account when considering COL, going so far as measuring the distance from the top edge of the case to the powder, so I can calculate the distance from the base of the bullet to the powder.

I've seen quite a few posts from knowledgeable people here who advise against using load data from one bullet manufacturer when seating a bullet from a different manufacturer. Makes sense.
With that in mind, I have to wonder how the Lyman Reloading Guide is so popular, since it specifies non-manufacturer specific bullets of different calibers.

Pam

Last edited by Pampurrs; December 16th, 2016 at 05:38 AM.
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Old December 16th, 2016, 08:44 AM   #5
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Pam, Just a few comments about reloading manuals .... the above assessments are correct. You can get in a heap of trouble using data from one manual and bullets from another. This is especially true with 9mm or 40 S&Ws where the case volume is minimal and chamber pressures are quite high.

Lead bullet loads listed in reloading manuals are rarely listed to conform to max chamber pressure ... rather they are intended to match chamber pressure to lead bullet hardness. This produces less bore fouling and is more accurate. You rarely find max lead bullet loads anywhere close to SAAMI max pressures. Further, lead bullet loads tend to be more generic .... meaning not brand specific so many of the loads in the Lyman manual are just that ... generic ... and because they are typically at the light end of the powder charge spectrum, they are safe.

I don't have the new Hornady manual but will probably buy one real soon. I like to keep up with all the new powders that have become available recently. In my opinion, there's no sense buying a new powder if you can't find load data for it. The Hornady manual is structured different than other manuals, which makes it much easier to use. For openers, the powders are listed in burn rate order with the fastest burners at the top. Each cartridge / bullet combination will have powder charges listed in 50 fps increments for handguns or 100 fps increments for rifle loads .... much better than just a starting load and a max load like other manuals have. Hornady's primer recommendations are quite different .... all magnum cartridges use magnum primers .... no matter what powder is used. They do test their loads but I much prefer other brands of manuals for magnum loads where they use a Standard primer except those noted where magnum primers are used.
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Old December 16th, 2016, 12:41 PM   #6
 
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Great melting meplats - the Doppler radar has revolutionized the shooting industry (sort of).

I promptly bought the 10 edition of the Hornady manual at Cabello's for under $28 because Cabello's likes me and it is open in-front of me right now.

Should loads specific for all powders and bullets be available the collection of manuals would need to be wheeled around place to place on a cart or dolly and would require the production capacity of the U.S. Government printing office. Just think of how many combinations are available, 1000 or so bullets, 100's of powders, many different primers and brands of brass cases.

Instead the bullet and powder companies who print the manuals expect that re-loaders will exercise common sense and that the re-loaders will evaluate some noticeable differences between same weight and caliber bullets. An example of this is the extraordinary long Nosler E-Tip and cup and core boat tail bullets.

As wisely mentioned. Some pistol rounds have tiny capacities and relatively high pressures. As strict as possible adherence to published loads is a really good idea. Cast, swaged, and electro plated coated bullets have similar but not identical pressure results. Jacketed bullets when loaded at maximum levels could be tricky in these tiny small capacity high pressure rounds. Attention should be made in primer selection. Any loading for these tiny high pressure cartridges should be approached with caution and extreme caution when the bullet is not shown in the manual. In any event start 10% low, and 10% of 5 grains is .5 grains - not much.

Continuing - I use any and all sources of info. During the last and hopefully absolute last component shortage I used many powders that I never would consider like 4000MR. These new powders worked very well. In order the save my stocks of H4350 I started to use H4350 in my .22-.250's from 35 to 36 grains for 68, 70 & 75 grain loads vs 52 grains or so for 100 grain bullets in the 6.5-06. To my amazement the 10th edition of the H manual had no H4350 or IMR 4350 or AA 4350 .22-.250 loads. Not to worry the Berger manual has lots of 4350 type powder loads. Should a person be "stuck" on any one manual like the 10th edition H manual 4350 powder loads would never be attempted. Look at all sources and use all knowledge that can be verified.

I plan to use the 6.5mm 130 grain H ELDM bullet in my 6.5X47 Lapua with RS Hunter. Hornady has no 6.5X47 Lapua data and Ram Shot does not have any Hunter data for the 6.5X47. Berger has RS Hunter data for the 6.5X47. Use whatever is out there with common sense.

Hornady is now showing G7 B.C. for their new ELD bullets - a welcome change. Possibly Hornady might market ballistic software that would show trajectory traces enabling various bullets to be compared.

Last edited by BassMan; December 16th, 2016 at 01:02 PM.
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Old December 16th, 2016, 02:35 PM   #7
 
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I've always used the Hornady books and bullets and been successful. Their bullets are top notch!
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Old December 16th, 2016, 03:46 PM   #8
 
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That's why I am good to get Lyman's 50th edition reloading manual. This manual will show various brands of bullets.
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Old December 16th, 2016, 05:35 PM   #9
 
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Pampurrs - I like your cheery avatar.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 06:22 AM   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
You can get in a heap of trouble using data from one manual and bullets from another. This is especially true with 9mm or 40 S&Ws where the case volume is minimal and chamber pressures are quite high.
I've often seen comments that the 9mm is easy to load for.

My own experience is it's one of the most demanding rounds to load for. Every factor is critical, and it's one of the few rounds that even variations on powders lot to lot actually require a bit of re-development.

A note on loading data from Speer and Hornady.
I think it was John Barsness or Brian Pearce that commented to the point that data was based on the bullet form that generated the greatest pressure with a given load/bullet weight, and was not an average or something like that. That would make perfect sense.

One example I can recall is the suitable charge for a 139gr/7mm bullets. The extra length of the bonded bullet compared to the SP with a flat base requires way more space in the case. Charges that rattle with the SP are compressed with the bonded BT to fit in my magazine.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 06:23 AM   #11
 
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Pampurrs - I like your cheery avatar.
Thank you
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Old December 17th, 2016, 06:51 AM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by TMan51 View Post
I've often seen comments that the 9mm is easy to load for.

My own experience is it's one of the most demanding rounds to load for. Every factor is critical, and it's one of the few rounds that even variations on powders lot to lot actually require a bit of re-development.

A note on loading data from Speer and Hornady.
I think it was John Barsness or Brian Pearce that commented to the point that data was based on the bullet form that generated the greatest pressure with a given load/bullet weight, and was not an average or something like that. That would make perfect sense.

One example I can recall is the suitable charge for a 139gr/7mm bullets. The extra length of the bonded bullet compared to the SP with a flat base requires way more space in the case. Charges that rattle with the SP are compressed with the bonded BT to fit in my magazine.
+1. I load 38spl, 357mag, 45acp and 9mm. I find 9mm to be the most challenging by far.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 06:56 AM   #13
 
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+1. I load 38spl, 357mag, 45acp and 9mm. I find 9mm to be the most challenging by far.
+2 I load all the above except for 45acp and agree that 9mm is the most challenging.

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Old December 17th, 2016, 07:50 PM   #14
 
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Yeah . . . I find handling those tiny 9mm cases and bullets and minuscule powder charges to be considerably more trying than bigger stuff.

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Old December 18th, 2016, 06:51 AM   #15
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Ale-8(1), If you think 9mms are bad, try reloading 25 ACPs! Several years ago I bought a set of RCBS dies for 25 ACP. I loaded exactly one box of 50 on my Rock Chucker and the dies have never been used since. Come to think of it .... I don't think I have fired my little Bauer .... Baby Browning clone since then. Itty bitty cases with tiny bullets and just a wisp of powder .... not my thing!

When loading 9mm on my Dillon RL550 .... it is not an issue because you only touch a case once when you put it in the first station. After 4 pulls of the handle, a live round drops in the Acro bin .... pretty slick. About the only thing different about 9mm is ... when you rotate the shell holder, powder will splash out of the case if you get to rambunctious.

It's not the mechanical process .... it's the bullet, powder, and seating depth combination that has to be precise. 9mms are NOT forgiving!
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