Ruger Forum banner

Minimum OAL for 9mm

29K views 23 replies 12 participants last post by  MKD 
#1 ·
Ok here goes I purchased some Rainer 115 RN for my 9mm. I found loading data for Rainier Bullets from a post on here. The info gives OAL at 1.169. My question is what is the minimum OAL. In the Lyman book there is no specific data for the 115 RN only the 115 JHP. Can I seat the bullet to the depth of the JHP of 1.090? I know seating a 9mm to low can greatly increase pleasure.

I would like to work up the loads to the following:

115 g RN
Starline Brass
Winchester small pistol primers
4.5 grains Unique powder


One other thing the new Lyman has BC and SD with numbers next to them under the picture of the bullet, what do they stand for?:(
 
#2 ·
I recently loaded some Rainer 115 RN for my 9mm (P95) at an OAL of 1.100 (per pg. 736 of my Sierra manual) and I had a number of FTF. I've never had this problem before with other reloads when the OAL has been between 1.115 and 1.135. I'm thinking that for my P95 1.100 is too short.
 
#3 ·
For 9mm - I load between 1.14 and 1.15. These seem to fire quite nicely from everything I own. The Lyman manual sets at 1.15 preferred but that does not match all factory ammo. I measured factory, which fired well in all guns, and came up with 1.146 as the average. Loading short may give you more pleasure but much more pressure. lol.
 
#6 ·
one of the powders I use consistently burns relatively fast. I use it for plinker loads in several calibers. my manual for that powder (in 9mm) recommends a seat depth of 1.1 within a certain volume load range. I thought that seemed pretty deep, so I tried some at the recommended depth and some longer. the long ones did not cycle consistently, the rounds at book depth ran perfectly without any sign of too much pressure. I would recommend a seat depth based on the specs in your reloading manuals. if your manual falls short in this capacity, look further. there will be common sense answers that can be a life saver. literally, a life saver. do not take any answer found on the internet, even on a forum like this, to the bank without further research. play devils advocate and ask more questions than you think are necessary. I, after some 35 years of reloading, need to often remind myself we work with stuff that can blow us up. caution is a way of life, not a luxury. measure twice cut once like the carpenter says.
 
#7 ·
First off WELCOME TO THE FORUM!

Always double check load data you see on a forum against reputable reloading books! Finding information for plated bullets can be tricky. The general consensus is to use data on the higher end of lead bullets or mid-range jacketed bullets.

The OAL in most books is the MINIMUM length a round should be. Many semi-autos can benefit from rounds that are a little longer so long as they chamber and function in the magazine.

Make up a few dummy rounds (no primer or powder) with the seating depth set out a bit. Do the "plunk test" in the chamber of your firearm(s) adjusting the depth in small amounts until they drop in the chamber. Next load the dummy rounds in the magazine(s) and check that they clear the front of the mag body. If they don't clear the mag, start setting the bullets deeper until they do without going under the listed OAL. Hand cycle the dummy rounds in your firearm(s) to check for feeding. Remember to sling shot the slide/bolt and not ride it with your hand.

Once you have your OAL figured out you can make up a SMALL batch (15-20 rounds max) to test at the range. My preferred method is to load ONE round, fire the gun to make sure it goes bang and the round ejects. Next I'll load 3 rounds in the magazine and fire them to check for feeding. If all is good there and I'm not seeing any over pressure signs on the spent cases I'll load a full magazine to check again for feeding and if there's any hidden "gotcha" spots in the mag body.

If everything is feeding/functioning properly and you're happy with the bullets POI you've just developed a load for your firearm:D

Always keep good notes of your reloads! Keep track of bullet weight/shape, powder charge, OAL, case, primer, and how they performed.

The other thing to remember is different brands of bullets can have slightly different shapes for a given weight (Rainer's RN has a different profile than Berry's RN than Hornady's RN than....) So if you switch bullet brands even if they're the same weight and style it's safest to start at the beginning and work up dummy rounds for the new bullet;)

Good luck, happy shooting, and load safe!
 
#8 ·
#9 ·
Thanks all for the replies. I will look for more info and work up a couple loads with the depths listed in the replies.

Pipermac you are correct pressure and pleasure are two greatly different things.

Johnsxj there is a difference between the Winchester 115 FMJ that I used before and the Rainier 115 RN, the Winchester is longer hence the question about seating depth.

And why do they not list minimum depths?
 
#12 ·
I've seen 1.169 as the overall length used many times, but that is the maximum length for 9mm and is sort of a cop out. In older reloading books they gave the "Seating depth" not the overall length. Seating depth is how far the bullet goes into the case and is really more important than overall length since that is what determines the case volume. The round nose is longer than a hollow point, so your oal should be greater. Measure the length of the unseated hollow point bullet and the length of the unseated round nose and calculate how much longer the round nose cartridge needs to be to give you the same seating depth. But to be honest; my seating die is designed to seat roundnosed 9mm, the Rainier hollow point has about the same ogive so it contacts the seating die on the shoulder rather than the point and seats the hp or fp shorter than the round nose. I assume the seating depth to be about the same. I only use this technique with Rainier or Berry because of the similar shape. I would not set up my dies for Rainier roundnose and then load a Hornady hollow point, the shape is too different. My velocities of all three bullets are about the same and I haven't had any obvious problems with pressure. Although the safest thing would be to calculate OAL based upon the same seating depth.

As you get into reloading more and more you might find yourself trying to come up with combinations for which there are no published recipes; you'll need to learn some technical knowledge of bullets and powder, use some logic and go slow.
 
#14 ·
I made up some dummy rounds with the OAL at 1.125 and they cycled with no problems. Next step a few live rounds loaded with 5 g Unique and then off to the range.


The dummy rounds & plunk test are the right way to go.

I use 1.10" for COL for my 115 gr. Xtreme plated rounds. I got 1,500 124 gr. Berry's plated for a good price & will be using them for a while & increased the COL to 1.125"

I recently tested Unique for the 1st time in 10 years & settled on 5.4 gr. & a COL of 1.125" with good results with the 124 gr Berry's RN bullets
This was with Winchester brass & CCI SP primers.

Let us know your results.
 
#15 ·
Bullet Pics

Well I got the rounds loaded up and noticed that the tips of the bullet rounded off more than they were before I started. I checked the die and it was for round nose bullets. Any thoughts??:confused: The round on the right is one of the dummy rounds loaded into an old case. The one on the left is a new case.
 

Attachments

#18 · (Edited)
Well I got the rounds loaded up and noticed that the tips of the bullet rounded off more than they were before I started. I checked the die and it was for round nose bullets. Any thoughts??:confused: The round on the right is one of the dummy rounds loaded into an old case. The one on the left is a new case.
All I can tell you is I use a Lee Carbide 3-die set & I have never had/seen bullets deform like that from just seating/crimping.

Are you sure you are expanding/flaring the cases properly? I have used Rainier plated bullets before without this issue. Cabela's has a nice sale on them right now.
 
#17 ·
Yup it was a round nose when I started. I have never reloaded the plated bullets before. Was at Cabelas the other day and picked up the Rainier bullets not knowing any better. Since it is a long drive to return I decided to keep them and load them never realizing I would have this much of a problem.
 
#20 ·
Update on original post. I have found the 115 RN Rainier with a powder charge of 4.5 g of Unique with an OAL length of 1.125 cycled and grouped well. The 5 g load had more recoil but also functioned properly. Now I will load about 20 rounds of the 4.5 g and shot before I do a bulk loading of that round.

Now the bullet issue. I flared the mouth of the casing just enough for the bullet to be set into the case without damage. The next rounds I will expand the mouths a little more and see if there is a difference.
 
#22 ·
You want neck tension and so the unexpanded diameter of the mouth of the case should be smaller than the bullet, but .348" seems to be a pretty tight case. My unexpanded mouths are .352" (Lyman dies) and then I expand the mouths so that a Berry 124 grn. plated bullet sets about .1" into the mouth. How are your loads looking now that you increase the expansion?
 
#23 ·
The range is 1.000 to 1.169 OAL. The specified OAL for the specific bullet and powder combination results in specific pressure and FPS combination. Changing the OAL is akin to changing the powder drop, in terms of sending pressures above max levels, if you are not careful things go poorly for you.

What I do when I acquire a new bullet is do a chamber test. I set it at 1.169 and see if it will drop into the chamber of the barrel (removed from the slide, barrel only). If it seats properly then I note that 1.169 is the max for this bullet/firearm combination.

If it won't seat fully in the plonk test then I grab a case that I split using a dremel and seat the bullet out at 1.169. I reassemble the pistol (er firearm) and then chamber the round slowly and let it go fully into battery. This pushes the bullet out against the lands and then down into the case.

After carefully ejecting that round I mic it and subtract 2/1000ths. I note that as an ABSOLUTE MAX OAL for that specific bullet IN MY FIREARM. I almost never seat it out at that distance but at least I know what the max is before I hit lands.

If I don't have OAL for a specific bullet, I select a similar bullet that has similar length and weight as well as the same style(plated/jacketed/lead/rn/hollow/etc) and get load data for it. For example, I didn't have load data on the Xtreme 115 but I had load data on Berry's 115. Both are RN, both are plated, both are similar profiles and nearly identical lengths (the bullet itself, not the loaded round) when measured with calipers. Then I add a few thousandths to the OAL from the published data of the other bullet. Since I have already done the above tests with the new bullet, I know where the max is when I add those few thousandths :) Then in testing I slowly work the OAL back to what the similar bullet stated and watch the FPS (since I can't measure pressure). When its near the FPS stated for the similar bullet, then I have reached an OAL that pretty closely matches the load spec. Personally, I found that in my pistol, load data for Berry's 115 almost exactly matches loads for Xtreme 115. I got nearly identical FPS and groups out of both using exactly the same load data. But, the two you choose may not match so closely.
 
#24 ·
Well I guess the bottom line is they that they cycle, are accurate, show no signs of over pressure. I will pick up a set of carbide Lee dies when I get a chance but in the mean time I will not bulk load this bullet. I will tinker a little bit more maybe setting the OAL a little bigger. Thanks for all the replies I can assure you my eyes have been opened to much more info that I never knew.:)
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top