f> Problem With New 375 H&H - Ruger Forum

Ruger Forum

Problem With New 375 H&H

This is a discussion on Problem With New 375 H&H within the Range Reports forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; I bought a new CZ 550 Safari Classic 375 H&H today. After I got it home I inspected, cleaned it and then went and shot ...


Go Back   Ruger Forum > Firearm Forum > Range Reports

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes

Old April 7th, 2017, 06:05 PM   #1
Moderator
 
Bonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,381
Bonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to behold
Problem With New 375 H&H

I bought a new CZ 550 Safari Classic 375 H&H today. After I got it home I inspected, cleaned it and then went and shot it. I only shot 3 rounds just to get a feel for the rifle. All three rounds fired and everything felt normal. When I picked up the brass I found this. Any ideas? Factory new Hornady Superformance GMX 250gr ammo. The chamber looks normal. No damage. The bolt cycles normally and the ammo feeds and extracts normally. Where would you start to trouble shoot this? Ammo or the rifle? Thanks.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0770.JPG (1.54 MB, 63 views)




Last edited by Bonk; April 7th, 2017 at 06:19 PM.
Bonk is offline  
Advertisements
Old April 7th, 2017, 06:23 PM   #2
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 22
BKDinTexas is on a distinguished road
It appears that brass was fired in a larger caliber/bore rifle. Are you sure the ammo/caliber you are loading is correct?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
BKDinTexas is offline  
Old April 7th, 2017, 06:29 PM   #3
Moderator
 
Bonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,381
Bonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to behold
That's the first thing I checked. Twice. And a third time. Says 375 H&H on the rifle and the ammo.
Bonk is offline  
 
Old April 9th, 2017, 11:03 AM   #4
Moderator
 
Bonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,381
Bonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to behold
Bump. Any ideas from some of you more knowledgeable amateur gunsmiths? My first thought is to get a different box/brand of ammo and see how that works. However, if the gun is the problem I don't really want to be lighting off any more 375 H&H mag boomers in a faulty/damaged gun. That might cause some serious unintended consequences to my handsomeness. I guess a call to Hornady and CZ is in order.

Last edited by Bonk; April 9th, 2017 at 11:08 AM.
Bonk is offline  
Old April 9th, 2017, 11:35 AM   #5
Moderator
 
Waveform's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 8,546
Waveform is a splendid one to beholdWaveform is a splendid one to beholdWaveform is a splendid one to beholdWaveform is a splendid one to beholdWaveform is a splendid one to beholdWaveform is a splendid one to beholdWaveform is a splendid one to beholdWaveform is a splendid one to behold
I don't really know Bonk but a local gunsmith might have a headspace gauge in 375 H&H and can check the rifle chamber easily. You could buy a set of Go & No-Go headspace gauges but the set would run $70 (Brownell's) and you'd never need them again in all liklihood. I would expect CZ would say send it in and we'll check it out but if you can do it locally you'd save the hassle of shipping a gun back and forth. If the rifle chamber is OK then it would have to be the ammo and then you try a different box. Good luck.

P.S. Headspace gauge may be good for length and you have a diameter oversize and not a length issue. I'm no gunsmith so I don't know if the headspace gauge is THE tool for this. Shoot Iowegan a PM and ask?

Last edited by Waveform; April 9th, 2017 at 11:40 AM.
Waveform is offline  
Old April 9th, 2017, 07:26 PM   #6
 
eastman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Upper Midwest
Posts: 3,135
eastman is a jewel in the rougheastman is a jewel in the rougheastman is a jewel in the rough
See if a local gunsmith can do a chamber casting. Then measure the dimensions of the cast to see if it is in spec with the published .375H&H cartridge.

(not sure if there is a specific name for the process, but it is the one used to check an unmarked &/or potentially modified rifle to determine what it is really chambered in)
eastman is offline  
Old April 10th, 2017, 01:07 AM   #7
 
Sambar Hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 191
Sambar Hunter will become famous soon enoughSambar Hunter will become famous soon enough
Hi all I had the same but older model CZ in 300 Win mag for the better part of 25 years and their quality is usually really good. That being said if anything I have learned is that new doesn't mean its right. By chance do you have a ssami cartridge drawing of 375H+H? Compare it to the unfired cartridges you have just to be sure they are even correct even though they are new. If they appear ok and true to the drawing measurements then as a quick check mark or colour the neck and shoulder with something like lead pencil or a light crayon carefully cycle it into the chamber close the bolt and then unchamber it unfired. Obviously do this somewhere that's safe. See if the "colour" from the lead pencil or crayon has worn off in places from the neck and shoulder of the cartridge. If it hasn't come off anywhere its an over reamed chamber or a head space issue.. I am not saying for a minute this replaces go or no go gauges or the work of a professional gunsmith but it might help you get a better nights sleep.. I hope for you its just dud brass..
Sambar Hunter is offline  
Old April 10th, 2017, 02:43 AM   #8
Moderator
 
Bonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,381
Bonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to behold
Thanks Sambar Hunter. Good info. I'll give it a try and get back to you. I appreciate the help.

I read a review of the exact same Hornady Superformance ammo (375H&H 250gr GMX) where a guy experienced a 30% rate of split cases. I'm reasonably certain this is an ammo issue but I want to make sure the rifle is good before I fire it again.
Bonk is offline  
Old April 10th, 2017, 03:04 AM   #9
 
cptpoly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia
Posts: 4,604
cptpoly is a jewel in the roughcptpoly is a jewel in the roughcptpoly is a jewel in the roughcptpoly is a jewel in the rough
Hornady might want to see that brass too.....
cptpoly is offline  
Old April 10th, 2017, 08:23 AM   #10
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: wayne nj
Posts: 23,879
bwinters is a splendid one to beholdbwinters is a splendid one to beholdbwinters is a splendid one to beholdbwinters is a splendid one to beholdbwinters is a splendid one to beholdbwinters is a splendid one to behold
check the bore with a micrometer possibly 416. Even if the barrel reads correctly I have seen 3 smith and wesson magnums miss marked. one said 44 mag and the barrel was a 41 and two the reverse. Did the rounds hit paper properly?
bwinters is offline  
Old April 12th, 2017, 11:03 AM   #11
Moderator
 
Bonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,381
Bonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to behold
*Update*

I just got off the phone with Hornady. I explained what happened and gave them the lot number and they immediately acknowledged that they had had some problems with some 375H&H ammo manufactured back in 2015. This particular box was part of the lot(s) in question. They thought they had recovered all the ammo but obviously there's still a few boxes out there. They explained in great detail why the ruptures had occurred and they're sending me some replacement ammo and a shipping label to return the defective stuff. I'm really happy to know it wasn't the rifle.
Bonk is offline  
Old April 12th, 2017, 12:19 PM   #12
 
Sambar Hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 191
Sambar Hunter will become famous soon enoughSambar Hunter will become famous soon enough
Hi all that's great news for you Bonk I thought it would be an ammo/brass problem not with the CZ 550 its self. The CZ I had in 300 win mag shot thousands of rounds over its life and it never gave one once of trouble not ever. Was it thin walls in the neck/shoulder of the brass that caused the problem?
Sambar Hunter is offline  
Old April 12th, 2017, 03:50 PM   #13
Moderator
 
Bonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,381
Bonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to behold
It was a three fold perfect storm.

1. The bullet itself is harder than normal. Even though it will still deform as intended the base of the bullet is very 'stiff'. They made it that way because they intended to push it to a high velocity and needed the firmer construction so it wouldn't deform or fragment at higher velocities.

2. The cases are annealed but it depends on where the ammo is headed on how they treat the annealed brass. Normally, for the U.S. market they polish the brass after annealing so it has a nice shiny look that gringos like. For the European/African market they don't bother polishing the brass after annealing because Europeans/Africans don't care about such frivolous nonsense. The problem is that the dull finish actually has a microscopically rough finish like ultra fine sandpaper. That finish causes a very slight increase in drag as the bullet leaves the case. For some reason some brass bound for the U.S. did not get the polish treatment and I ended up with a box of 375H&H made with that brass.

3. The 250gr GMX bullet is a relatively lightweight bullet for the 375H&H caliber and the goal was to create a high velocity round. They decided to use a fast burning powder to get that result.

So, as I understand it, the increased drag caused by the rough finish of the unpolished annealed brass combined with a faster than average powder burn and a very unyielding and hard bullet base causes a fairly significant pressure spike that ruptures the brass at the shoulder and neck. That may all be complete BS but that's how it was explained to me.

Last edited by Bonk; April 12th, 2017 at 03:57 PM.
Bonk is offline  
Old April 12th, 2017, 08:01 PM   #14
 
Sambar Hunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 191
Sambar Hunter will become famous soon enoughSambar Hunter will become famous soon enough
Good explanation its turned out much better than it could of been. At the end of the day what goes on in a cartridge is a controlled explosion the propellant gases found the next weakest place to exit the cartridge as it tried to shove the projectile out at the same time. All jokes aside was probably lucky it was fired in the over engineered/strong CZ action.

That's interesting you mention the polished new brass and lets call it "dull" new brass I have noticed that but never really paid attention to that. Is a few European calibres that come down here like 9.3 x 62 for hunting I have seen that new "dull" on factory rounds for them.
Sambar Hunter is offline  
Old April 13th, 2017, 03:24 AM   #15
Moderator
 
Bonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2,381
Bonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to beholdBonk is a splendid one to behold
Yep. In fact the Hornady rep mentioned 9.3x62 while we were discussing this. The top third of the brass (the neck/shoulder area) where it's annealed has that slightly dull grayish tint.

Even though I grew up in the U.S. I was actually born in England. I must be channeling my British roots because I bought a Ruger #1 in 9.3x62 a couple of weeks ago and now this CZ550 375H&H.

The real story is I'm planning a plains game hunt in South Africa. It's been a bucket list item for many years so me and an old friend are finally getting around to planning the trip. I was going to take my 30-06 but I wanted the full African experience so I started looking for classic African calibers and the 375H&H and 9.3x62 kept coming to the top of the list.

The more I read about the 375H&H the more I realize how misunderstood it is in the U.S. By all accounts it's an extremely versatile caliber. Most American hunters just think of it as a dangerous game caliber. They also think it has monstrous recoil and they shy away from it as being impractical except for grizzlies. In reality it recoils about the same as 7mm Mag, 300mag, 338mag or any other 30 caliber magnum rifle. There's a small contingent of U.S. hunters that use 375H&H for deer, elk, hogs, etc. All of them praise it's overall usefulness and are adamant fans of the caliber.
Bonk is offline  
Reply

  Ruger Forum > Firearm Forum > Range Reports

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Ruger Forum Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
375 Ruger reloading problem rrharley Reloading 9 February 27th, 2015 08:34 PM
No.1 .375 H&H Mike45 Ruger Single-Shot 11 June 10th, 2014 01:13 AM
45-70 or 375 H&H SemperFi7051 Rifles 14 February 16th, 2014 12:49 PM
375 h&h EASTON Reloading 1 December 29th, 2012 03:26 PM
Ruger No.1 .375 H&H VladTepes Ruger Single-Shot 16 December 28th, 2011 12:01 PM

Top Gun Sites Top Sites List
Powered by vBulletin 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright © 2006 - 2017 Ruger Forum. All rights reserved.
Ruger Forum is a Ruger Firearms enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent Sturm Ruger & Company Inc. of Southport, CT.