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Remington 1911r and perceived fragility

This is a discussion on Remington 1911r and perceived fragility within the Pistols & Revolvers forums, part of the Pistol & Revolver Forum category; I bought a used 1911r from a friend of mine who owns an LGS. I would have preferred it was a Ruger but the gun ...


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Old April 28th, 2017, 05:54 AM   #1
 
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Question Remington 1911r and perceived fragility

I bought a used 1911r from a friend of mine who owns an LGS. I would have preferred it was a Ruger but the gun was used and I wanted to support my friend.

Anyway I did a light clean of it and took to the range. The gun is very, very accurate. When I was reading the manual on it though under the ammunition section it said something like:

This firearm is made for the 230 grain .45 ACP traveling 835 FPS. Other types of ammunition may not function properly.

How I infer it is Remington doesn't have a lot of confidence in the quality of their 1911 and the statement rubbed me the wrong way because now I feel like its a fragile little piece.

My ideal carry ammo is a Federal 230 FMJ .45 traveling 890 FPS with a muzzle energy of 404 lbs.

Usually in manuals they don't recommend handloads or steady diets of +p ammo. Some manufacturers say +p is fine for for defensive carry.

Also, does does anyone know where the Remington 1911's are made?

Mine doesn't say the usual "Made in US".



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Old April 28th, 2017, 08:39 AM   #2
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Cherno Alpha1, It's not a strength issue (fragile), it's all about the configuration. Remington R1s are made in Ilion, New York and are just as strong as any other brand of 1911s.

The standard R1 is a clone of the military 1911, which was designed to shoot 230gr GI ball ammo (FMJ). I can't think of any brand of 1911 that doesn't function the best with normal 230gr FMJ loads. According to the factory ammo data base, commercial 230gr FMJ ammo is loaded to velocities from 820 fps to 850 fps. Guess what Remington brand 45 ACP 230gr FMJ ammo is loaded to? Yup, 835 fps.

1911s are available in many different configurations from combat to bullseye target models. Most of the differences are the sights and accessories but there are also differences in barrels. Target models come with match grade throated barrels so they can feed semi-wad cutters. Some combat models also have throated barrels for feeding jacketed hollow points. Standard GI type barrels are not throated and are intended for FMJ bullets only.

One of the very unique features of any brand of 1911 is the power range of ammo that you can safely shoot. By just changing the recoil spring (yours comes with a 16 lb spring) you can adjust for different power level loads. A 16 lb spring is used for standard loads, an 18.5 lb spring is used for 45 ACP +P loads, a 14 lb spring is used for light loads. A 12 lb spring is used for very light bullseye loads. The concept being .... tension of the recoil spring has to be strong enough to resist slide thrust yet light enough to allow the slide to move fully to the rear under recoil. If the recoil spring is too strong for your loads, the slide will "short stroke" and not eject spent cases. If the recoil spring is too light for your load, it can damage the frame and slide. So .... if you want to shoot higher or lower power loads, just buy a recoil spring to match the ammo. Not to worry, your R1 is plenty strong for 45 ACP +P loads assuming an 18.5 lb recoil spring.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 08:43 AM   #3
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
Cherno Alpha1, It's not a strength issue (fragile), it's all about the configuration. Remington R1s are made in Ilion, New York and are just as strong as any other brand of 1911s.

The standard R1 is a clone of the military 1911, which was designed to shoot 230gr GI ball ammo (FMJ). I can't think of any brand of 1911 that doesn't function the best with normal 230gr FMJ loads. According to the factory ammo data base, commercial 230gr FMJ ammo is loaded to velocities from 820 fps to 850 fps. Guess what Remington brand 45 ACP 230gr FMJ ammo is loaded to? Yup, 835 fps.

1911s are available in many different configurations from combat to bullseye target models. Most of the differences are the sights and accessories but there are also differences in barrels. Target models come with match grade throated barrels so they can feed semi-wad cutters. Some combat models also have throated barrels for feeding jacketed hollow points. Standard GI type barrels are not throated and are intended for FMJ bullets only.

One of the very unique features of any brand of 1911 is the power range of ammo that you can safely shoot. By just changing the recoil spring (yours comes with a 16 lb spring) you can adjust for different power level loads. A 16 lb spring is used for standard loads, an 18.5 lb spring is used for 45 ACP +P loads, a 14 lb spring is used for light loads. A 12 lb spring is used for very light bullseye loads. The concept being .... tension of the recoil spring has to be strong enough to resist slide thrust yet light enough to allow the slide to move fully to the rear under recoil. If the recoil spring is too strong for your loads, the slide will "short stroke" and not eject spent cases. If the recoil spring is too light for your load, it can damage the frame and slide. So .... if you want to shoot higher or lower power loads, just buy a recoil spring to match the ammo. Not to worry, your R1 is plenty strong for 45 ACP +P loads assuming an 18.5 lb recoil spring.
Thanks for the clarification. I think its a standard 16 pound spring. Would you say an 18 pound is spring is the best to accommodate the standard pressure .45 ACP loads while also being able to handle the more powerful .45 ACP+P loads?

I'd like a spring for the best of both worlds so I dont have to change them out.

Last edited by Cherno Alpha1; April 28th, 2017 at 08:46 AM.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 09:02 AM   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherno Alpha1 View Post
Thanks for the clarification. I think its a standard 16 pound spring. Would you say an 18 pound is spring is the best to accommodate the standard pressure .45 ACP loads while also being able to handle the more powerful .45 ACP+P loads?

I'd like a spring for the best of both worlds so I dont have to change them out.
Another thing to consider is a Wilson flat wire recoil spring. They function better with different loads and last 10 times as long, or so I am told. Keep in mind, you need to replace the guide rod along with the spring as the inner diameter of the spring is smaller
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Old April 28th, 2017, 09:37 AM   #5
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Cherno Alpha1,
Quote:
Would you say an 18 pound is spring is the best to accommodate the standard pressure .45 ACP loads while also being able to handle the more powerful .45 ACP+P loads?
No, 16 lb factory spring for normal loads, a 18 lb spring for +P loads. Chances are, a 18 lb spring will be too tight for normal ammo and will result in stovepipes and failures to eject. +P ammo is too powerful for a 16 lb spring. Most people don't shoot +P ammo because it is quite expensive and for range ammo, it just doesn't make any sense. Shoot normal ammo for range practice and if you feel the need for more power for self defense, get some +P ammo and a new 18.5 lb recoil spring. Of course you need to practice with the +P ammo just to make sure it will function reliably in your pistol .... and there's a good chance it won't because most +P loads have jacketed hollow points that don't like to feed in non-throated barrels. BTW, a 45 ACP pistol with standard 230gr FMJ ammo has been one of the very best self defense combinations ever made for over 100 years.

Last edited by Iowegan; April 28th, 2017 at 09:40 AM.
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Old April 28th, 2017, 10:31 AM   #6
 
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IOWEGAN, don't you have to worry about over penetration? "BTW, a 45 ACP pistol with standard 230gr FMJ ammo has been one of the very best self defense combinations ever made for over 100 years."
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Old April 28th, 2017, 11:32 AM   #7
 
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IOWEGAN, don't you have to worry about over penetration? "BTW, a 45 ACP pistol with standard 230gr FMJ ammo has been one of the very best self defense combinations ever made for over 100 years."
This is my inbetween city and woods carry, like out on the outskirts and I've chosen FMJ because .45 Auto FMJ was proven in ww1 and ww2.

But I wouldn't use FMJ in city.
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Old April 29th, 2017, 12:27 AM   #8
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Rick246, A 230gr FMJ 45 ACP is not some little bitty bullet nor is it very fast. As such it has been a very reliable man stopper with minimal risk of over penetration, as I stated above .... for more than 100 years. Why mess with a known good performer? . My favorite carry pistol is a Colt Combat Commander stoked with 230gr FMJs .... no hollow points because they don't open up reliably at low velocities and no +Ps because there just isn't a need for them .... my own opinion of course.
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Old April 29th, 2017, 02:49 AM   #9
 
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I had a Remington 1911 several years ago. There was nothing fragile about it except the finish, it did not seem to be as durable a finish as the Taurus PT92 I had traded for it. Otherwise the gun was well built and very reliable for me.

As far as ammunition go, I tried some hollow points through it and had zero issues, though it was only a couple boxes worth (Hornady Critical Defense). I was concerned with over penetration when I lived in a thin walled apartment. If you look at the test linked below, they tested multiple hollow points and a 45 FMJ, the FMJ went through a 32" block of ballistic gel.

Ballistic test of the .45 Auto,because they do not make a .46
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Old April 29th, 2017, 06:00 AM   #10
 
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older style remignton 185 grain lhollowpoint will feed in most gi spec semiautos. read massod ayoob on this.
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Old April 29th, 2017, 06:36 AM   #11
 
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Bought an R1-S several years back when you couldn't find a Ruger 1911 in my area to save your soul (plus I liked the all stainless vs Ruger's two tone look).

It's a range gun so it's mostly fed 230RN's but I have shot 185SWC's from time to time without issue.

The only downside to the regular R1 series IMO is the proprietary dovetail cut used on the rear sight that the aftermarket hasn't really caught up to yet.
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Old April 29th, 2017, 10:15 AM   #12
 
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I had an R1 for several years.

It was extremely accurate. So much, that a good friend hounded me until I sold it to him. He absolutely love it and carried it everyday until he died. I offered to buy it back from his widow, but his son scarffed it up.

I ran several types of factory loads in FMJ, all ran flawlessly.
My friend ran his Dads reloads, and never complained about any failures.

One thing I did notice on the R1, the rear sight had a bad habit of coming loose.

locktie that puppy if it aint been done already.

That was the only problem I knew of on the R1.

Speaking of which, I still have several NIB stainless mags here for it if anyone is interested. .
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Old April 30th, 2017, 04:23 PM   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
Cherno Alpha1, It's not a strength issue (fragile), it's all about the configuration. Remington R1s are made in Ilion, New York and are just as strong as any other brand of 1911s.

The standard R1 is a clone of the military 1911, which was designed to shoot 230gr GI ball ammo (FMJ). I can't think of any brand of 1911 that doesn't function the best with normal 230gr FMJ loads. According to the factory ammo data base, commercial 230gr FMJ ammo is loaded to velocities from 820 fps to 850 fps. Guess what Remington brand 45 ACP 230gr FMJ ammo is loaded to? Yup, 835 fps.

1911s are available in many different configurations from combat to bullseye target models. Most of the differences are the sights and accessories but there are also differences in barrels. Target models come with match grade throated barrels so they can feed semi-wad cutters. Some combat models also have throated barrels for feeding jacketed hollow points. Standard GI type barrels are not throated and are intended for FMJ bullets only.

One of the very unique features of any brand of 1911 is the power range of ammo that you can safely shoot. By just changing the recoil spring (yours comes with a 16 lb spring) you can adjust for different power level loads. A 16 lb spring is used for standard loads, an 18.5 lb spring is used for 45 ACP +P loads, a 14 lb spring is used for light loads. A 12 lb spring is used for very light bullseye loads. The concept being .... tension of the recoil spring has to be strong enough to resist slide thrust yet light enough to allow the slide to move fully to the rear under recoil. If the recoil spring is too strong for your loads, the slide will "short stroke" and not eject spent cases. If the recoil spring is too light for your load, it can damage the frame and slide. So .... if you want to shoot higher or lower power loads, just buy a recoil spring to match the ammo. Not to worry, your R1 is plenty strong for 45 ACP +P loads assuming an 18.5 lb recoil spring.

Hey Iowegan, do you think the 18.5 lbs. spring is too much for a 230 grain bullet traveling 890 FPS? (404 lbs. of muzzle energy) or would the 17 lbs. spring be better?
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Old April 30th, 2017, 05:21 PM   #14
 
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FMJ being used in both wars is not, in itself, proof of effectiveness

International treaties require the use of FMJ since a soft nosed bullet creates worse wounds. I should think a FMJ round would penetrate more than a lead bullet. That's not saying it won't do the job.
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Old April 30th, 2017, 06:13 PM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by SSBN620GOLD View Post
International treaties require the use of FMJ since a soft nosed bullet creates worse wounds. I should think a FMJ round would penetrate more than a lead bullet. That's not saying it won't do the job.
I think its part of the 1899 Hague convention or something


It was very successful against Germans and Japanese soldiers.

But I'm curious to know if the 16 pound spring is sturdy enough to handle a 230 grain bullet traveling 890 FPS (404 lbs. of muzzle energy) without damaging the slide. It's not +p but its more powerful than the 230 grain bullet traveling 835 FPS.
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