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1911 vs Glock

This is a discussion on 1911 vs Glock within the Pistols & Revolvers forums, part of the Pistol & Revolver Forum category; OK, not the typical 1911 vs Glock question. Actually, it's not really about Glock at all. I'm asking here on Ruger forum for an unbiased ...


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Old February 18th, 2010, 08:38 AM   #1
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1911 vs Glock

OK, not the typical 1911 vs Glock question. Actually, it's not really about Glock at all. I'm asking here on Ruger forum for an unbiased opinion. I own and CCW my Glock. I prefer the DAO and no safety for CCW, I know this is debateable, but this is just me.
So, knowing this and that I'm stubborn and won't change my mind, I've now got a hard-on for a 1911 and need some advice.

I want a 1911 for a potential CCW, but know only a minimal amount about them. My perfect gun would be a 1911 in 9mm, DAO, compact. Now, maybe this doesn't exist and therefore I really don't want a 1911. If this doesn't exist since I haven't been able to find one, is there something close like a 1911 .45 compact that has a decocker? I want to be able to carry hammer down, safety off. Again, my preference. Any suggestions at all, or just keep my Glocks?



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Old February 18th, 2010, 01:05 PM   #2
 
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Para Ordnance has the LDA 9mm pistols which are double stack and Officer size (forgot the name for the moment). I hate the LDA trigger system, but you being a glock trigger lover might like it. CCW the glock and have fun with something inexpensive, fun, and nice like Taurus's new PT1911 9mm (my next gun).
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Old February 18th, 2010, 01:21 PM   #3
 
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Technically, a 1911 is a SAO pistol with manual safety, so strictly speaking what you want does not exist. There are 9mm 1911's, of course. Have you looked at CZ's 75 or their compact versions? These are 1911-ish/Browninh HP looking pistols, DA/SA with either decocking levers or traditional manual safety.
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Old February 18th, 2010, 02:38 PM   #4
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Wow, I really like those Para's. I hadn't been looking at those. Not feeling the love for the CZ, but I'll need to see and grip in person. I've never been a 1911 guy until I finally held one the other day. Springfield Micro 45 and EMP 9mm's had me drooling. Pricey though, but it looks like most of the 1911's are. That's good, because I'll need to save for quite a while and this will force me to take the time to learn more about them.
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Old February 18th, 2010, 03:16 PM   #5
 
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One thing to keep in mind too, at least in .45acp, is that the 3" or shorter barreled 1911's do not have a stellar reputation for reliability.

Full size government (5") and commander (4.25") models are quite reliable, but the ultra-short adaptations of the 1911-style pistol are known for being the most problematic of the "family".

I would not want to use anything less then a commander sized 1911 for carry - just wouldn't trust one. I personally like the commander size pistols, and am picking up a Colt 1991A1 Combat Commander this weekend.
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Old February 18th, 2010, 03:32 PM   #6
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OK, appreciate the info, this is why I'm asking. I'd rather get more unbiased info here than on a 1911 forum.
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Old February 18th, 2010, 05:47 PM   #7
 
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I think you'd get good advice on m1911.org, if you asked about the Para LDA. I know you'll get conflicting advice about wanting to carry hammer down on a live round with a regular 1911. I think you are trying to mix two separate handgun designs (Glock, or something with a decocker like a Sig, vs. the single action 1911) and carry them the same, which may not be the most beneficial for what you are trying to accomplish.

Carrying a 1911 with a loaded chamber, hammer down, is not all that safe. It's only slightly more safe than carrying a single action Ruger revolver (without a transfer bar) with the hammer down on a live round. Any kind of blow to the back of the gun could send the round down your leg. Drop the gun, and it will probably fire. Hammer down on a live round defeats all the safety mechanisms designed into the gun.

Also, unless you get a 1911 with a spur hammer and short grip safety (like the GI configuration), it's going to be REALLY hard to cock the hammer on the draw, and even harder when under stress. Easier with the spur hammer and short grip safety, but most people don't like those because they bite chunks out of the web of your hand.

To me, the requirements you have in a carry configuration just do not match the 1911 design, unless you get a Para LDA. The advantages to me of the 1911 are a superior trigger (clean, crisp single action break), combined with a thin form factor, and with multiple safety measures in place to allow secure carry in a "ready to rock" configuration. With a cocked and locked 1911, three things have to happen to have the round fire: Grip saftey depressed when you grip the gun, thumb safety swept off, trigger pulled. That's two more than a Glock (where you just pull the trigger). So it's plenty safe, but if you just want to pull and fire, it's not for you.

That being said, the Para LDA is a really cool design. You lose the glass rod single action trigger, but the trigger pull on the LDA is still pretty sweet, if a bit long. It is very light, with no stack up. I don't know if you've ever fired a Kahr, but they have a similar trigger. Smooth, light, no stack.

I guess my question is, what is it about the 1911 that you like so much, to where you'd consider carrying it? If it were me, and I had to have double action, I'd get a Kahr CW45 (I already have a CW9). Same slim profile as the 1911, lighter due to the polymer frame, same grip angle and pointability, light DAO trigger, all in .45 ACP. Otherwise, with something like the Para, you're getting essentially the same thing in a much heavier package.

Last edited by Hammerdown; February 18th, 2010 at 05:51 PM.
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Old February 18th, 2010, 06:01 PM   #8
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Yeah, I'm thinking that a 1911 may not be for me.

What got me interested is just basically the tradition and history behind the design. While I was looking at them I started noticing some really nice builds, duo tone w/ wood grips, etc. I was impressed with the beauty and asked to hold one the other day at a local gun shop. Holy cow did it feel nice. I really liked the feel and the point. Under a closer inspection I was really impressed with the fit and finish of the Springfields. All this got me wanting one.
BUT... I'm also pretty practical. I like my guns to serve a purpose, I'm not a fan of safe queens as they don't hold my interest. So, I'd have to have a purpose in the 1911, and I guess I really don't.
My collection -
Ruger GP100 - Wife's gun, and I love it.
Ruger MKII - accurate target gun, use for paper and bowling pin shooting matches
Ruger LCP - pocket CCW when I can't carry my G26
Glock 26 - primary CCW
Glock 34 - IDPA and bowling pin matches, also training for the G26 in a self-defense situation (same 'platform')
Colt LE6920 - SHTF and do it all rifle, close and mid-longer range target shooting, tacticool.
S&W M&P 15-22 - for when I can't shoot the Colt outside, or when I can't afford to shoot .223
Lastly, - Taurus AFS PT11 (I think thats the model) - bought it cause it looked nice, safe queen, losing interest in it.

So, everything serves it's purpose, or at least I justify it that way to my wife. I can't justify a 1911 without giving something up. I could get rid of both my Glocks and get 2 1911's, but I'm not ready to make that leap. I was hoping to justify a 1911 as possibly a heavier caliber CCW weapon (if I went .45), but at this point I think I'm going to save my money.





... until one catches my eye at a Fun Show.
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Old February 18th, 2010, 09:20 PM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeBlast
I want to be able to carry hammer down, safety off.
Sig P239. DA first shot, SA second to empty. Relatively compact and seems quite nice.

Coming from a Glock, the trigger should seem wonderful.
(the SA is still not as good as a 1911, but not bad at all)

If you get one, dry fire it a bunch. It's easy to get used to.
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Old February 21st, 2010, 09:53 AM   #10
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I think I've decided to start looking at a Taurus 1911. I think the best way for me to get into a 1911 is to maybe trade in my safe queen.


If I can trade this in on a Taurus 1911, the initial OOP will be greatly reduced, and will give me something different.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 02:26 AM   #11
 
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Buckeye Blast: Go with the Springfield, much better gun than the Taurus.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 05:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boblenaere View Post
Buckeye Blast: Go with the Springfield, much better gun than the Taurus.
Yeah, I should've said a full size 1911 instead of the Taurus specifically. I've gotta keep costs down, but there's a few I've seen that I like and there seems to be a lot more variety in costs in the full size 1911's than there is in the compacts. We'll see.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 05:39 AM   #13
 
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I had an all stainless Taurus PT1911 for awhile and it was a 100% reliable shooter. I bought it used, but unfired shortly after the stainless models first became available, and put about 2000 rounds through it without a single issue of any kind. I sold it recently and put the money towards a Colt 1991a1 Combat Commander (which I picked up on Saturday) because I prefer the commander size, and I learned I really dislike ambi-safeties and extended safeties (and to be honest, I just wanted to own a Colt).

There are a number of good choices in the $500-$700 government size pistols though (stainless will always cost a bit more then carbon steel finishes) - Springfield, Rock Island Armory, Taurus seem arguably the most common.

Locally, on the VA guntrader board, I've seen quite a few 1911's going for good prices - $500-$800 (SIG GSR and a S&W falling at the higher end of that range), so there are good options in used for sure.
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 07:06 AM   #14
 
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I had a 3" Para Ordnance "Para Regal-Carry"... it was a tack driver at 25yrds off-hand. Beautifully made and quite a handful for some shooters.

You do NOT carry the "LDA-Action" Paras with out the thumb-safety engaged... that's a big NO-NO!... it is holstered (Condition-1) just like any other 1911 pistol.

Sig' does offer some DAO pistols in carry sizes that point very much like a 1911.

You must condition yourself to use the 1911 or you may forget something in an emergency.
You already are trained to respect the firing system of the Glock... which is hard for some to do be comfortable with... stick with the Glocks sense you have the gun down pat for carry and haven't shot your eye out yet!

Or by an officer's model 1911 and enjoy it at the range till you are familiar with the gadgets on it.

Good Luck!

knuckles

Last edited by knuckles; February 22nd, 2010 at 07:15 AM. Reason: wrong word
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Old February 22nd, 2010, 07:14 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knuckles View Post
I had a 3" Para Ordnance "Para Regal-Carry"... it was a tack driver at 25yrds off-hand. Beautifully made and quite a handful for some shooters.

You do NOT carry the "LDA-Action" Paras with out the thumb-safety engaged... that's a big NO-NO!... it is holstered (Condition-1) just like any other 1911 pistol.

Sig' does offer some DAO pistols in carry sizes that pint very much like a 1911.

You must condition yourself to use the 1911 or you may forget something in an emergency.
You already are trained to respect the firing system of the Glock... which is hard for some to do be comfortable with... stick with the Glocks sense you have the gun down pat for carry and haven't shot your eye out yet!

Or by an officer's model 1911 and enjoy it at the range till you are familiar with the gadgets on it.

Good Luck!

knuckles

Yes, exactly my thoughts. My Glock 26 and Ruger LCP are both carried and 'ready to fire' with the same actions, draw, pull trigger, bang. Neither have the manual safetys and I don't intend to carry a gun with one. Truth is, I'd carry (and have carried) my GP100 before I'd carry a gun w/ an external safety. I respect anyone who carries a gun with an external safety, but it's not just for me. I started off training w/ a revolver many years ago, then moved to a KelTec 9, then to Glocks, etc. The only guns w/ external safeties that I own are my AR's (which I DO use the safety, but the training has been completely different), and the Taurus which is a safe queen. I'm too much a man of habit to learn something new and trust myself enough to put my life immediately behind it. So, this is why I'll probably be looking at full size 1911's. I shoot IDPA and bowling pins w/ my Glock 34, maybe after some time w/ a 1911 I'll try it in the games and eventually feel I'm prepared to look at an external safety gun as a carry weapon. We'll see.
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