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Which Nikon version and why

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Old September 15th, 2012, 07:29 AM   #1
 
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Which Nikon version and why

Here is my plan...After considering scopes for a 10/22 that I will own in the near future and a Sig Sauer 522 that I own now, I want to buy a scope that can be used on both rifles but will primarily reside on the 10/22 after it arrives.

The scope will be the Nikon P-22. I have the option of Nikoplex or BDC150. The rifle will mainly be used for target shooting steel and paper at longish distances. I don't hunt. Which one and why? I am assuming that BDC means bullet drop compensator out to 150 yds, correct? Probably the nearest place for me to go look at these scopes is 2 hours to Cabelas.



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Old September 15th, 2012, 07:43 AM   #2
 
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Cabelas website

I just went there and they have a video that explains both of the reticles with photos for the P-22. I think i might need 2 of them. One for each rifle.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 08:47 AM   #3
 
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I think just for target shooting Nikoplex is good enough. You can compensate for the bullet drop yourself without those 3 circles underneath the crosshairs and you save some money as well. I do fairly well with the Nikoplex and am more than happy with it. I can shoot up to 100 yds with my Nikon which is a Prostaff 3-9x40. With the money you save you can buy 2-3 more bricks of 500 rounds of 22 ammo
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Old September 15th, 2012, 09:41 AM   #4
 
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The deal I'm looking at

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Originally Posted by Tiger Ruger View Post
I think just for target shooting Nikoplex is good enough. You can compensate for the bullet drop yourself without those 3 circles underneath the crosshairs and you save some money as well. I do fairly well with the Nikoplex and am more than happy with it. I can shoot up to 100 yds with my Nikon which is a Prostaff 3-9x40. With the money you save you can buy 2-3 more bricks of 500 rounds of 22 ammo
is $199 that includes rings, $0 shipping, and a $30 rebate, so $169 for either model. Cabelas offering does not include rings for similar price plus shipping and if I drive to the store = 4hrs driving and gas @$4 per gallon.....mail order deal suddenly makes all the sense in the deal.

The demo video explains how you compensate with Nikoplex manually and how you compensate visually with BDC150 plus some type of phone app that gives you all sorts of data for every possible .22lr round one might shoot. To someone(not me) that data might be something that trips their trigger, but for me the last thing I would be doing at a range is fiddling with my phone. I go there to get away from that stuff. Both can do the same thing, just in different ways or how you learned and are comfortable with doing, if I understand all that was pointed out in the video.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 01:24 PM   #5
 
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I've put the BDC 150 on a couple of my 22s and it does work slick for shooting bullseye targets at varying distances AND distances where you wouldn't ordinarily shoot a 22. If you're on a range with marked distances, you can have a heck of a lot of fun shooting way out there and doing, effectively.

For example, with a 25 yard zero on my Charger using CCI mini mags, I have the crosshairs set at 25 yards, then circles for 52 yards (close enough for 50 yards), 74 yards (close enough for 75 yards), 91 yards, 116 yards and a bottom post for 139 yards. It has tightened up my groups and given me dead on hit capability at 50 yards and 75 yards and beyond without guessing as to holdover. Nikon also has a website with a slick ballistics program for tuning the BDC to your gun and load, so you'll have plenty of help on using the BDC.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 03:04 PM   #6
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ARP, Any decent scope will improve your aim but no scope will change the trajectory of a bullet. Herein lies the problem with shooting at extended distances with a 22 LR.

Because 22 LRs aren't very high velocity to start with (compared to a center fire), they will drop a lot at distances beyond 75 yards. Additionally, 22 LR bullets have a very poor ballistic coefficient, which means they aren't very aerodynamic and are affected a lot by wind. So ... even though a 22 LR bullet will easily travel several hundred yards, accuracy can go from "mouse ear" groups at 50 yards to "shotgun" patterns at 100 yards and beyond.

I use Ballistic Explorer and plotted a 40 gr 22 LR with a MV of 1255 fps and a zero-in distance of 50 yards. At 100 yards, the bullet drops about 5.5" and at 150 yards, right at 20 inches. Further, a mere 10 mph side wind (hardly noticeable) will drive a 22 LR bullet about 5" off target at 100 yds and over 10" at 150 yards.

To get full advertised muzzle velocity, you need a closed breach rifle (ie bolt action) and a 24" barrel. Any barrel shorter than 24" is going to reduce MV plus any semi-auto is going to rob some of the power to operate the action. I have a CZ 452-2E (bolt action) with a 24" barrel. With 40 gr CCI Mini-Mags, it chronographs right at the factory spec of 1250 fps. My 10/22 with a 20" match grade barrel chronos at 1175 fps and my 10/22 with a factory 18.5" barrel chronos at 1150 fps with the same ammo ... a full 100 fps slower than advertised spec. I'm sure your SIG 522 would chrono even lower. When you plot these lower velocities, 22 LR bullets drop considerably more and are blown off course more by wind.

I guess what I'm trying to say is ... 100 yds is a lot to ask of any 22 LR rifle and any distance beyond that is even worse. Most 22 LR shooters limit their range to 50~75 yards. Yes, you can still hit a gong at extended distances but don't expect tight groups, especially with a standard factory barrel.

On to scopes .... I learned a long time ago to try to match my optics to the gun. It's counter productive to put a high $$$ scope on a factory 10/22 when a less expensive model will still out perform the rifle. Nikon is an excellent brand with excellent optics ... no argument there. Personally, I tend to buy scopes for 22s that are much better quality than necessary ... primarily to get the magnification and other features I want.

Magnification .... probably the biggest downfall of many scope buyers. For center fire rifles shooting at Bambi sized game ... 1x per 25 yards of effective shooting distance is optimum. In other words, a 3~9x scope is well suited for distances of 75 to 225 yards, which coincidentally is about the max effective range for most center fire hunting rifles. Using the 1x per 25 yds concept makes the target appear like it was 25 yards away anywhere within its zoom range. For 22 LR rifles, the target is more "Thumper" sized so the standard is 1x per 10 yards. Optimum magnification for a 22 LR rifle is 3~10x (30~100 yds). A 3~9x is also suitable. If you bench rest shoot, magnification is not a big deal ... more could be better. But if you shoot off hand (no rest), you will find magnification works against you rather than for you. At 4x, you can actually see the effects of your heart beat ... at 9 or 10x, you can't hold the gun still enough to stay on target. Zoom range is also an important issue ... most scopes have about a 3:1 zoom range so if max magnification is 15x, minimum would be about 5x ... too powerful to use without a rest. Again, this makes a 3~9x or a 3~10x way more useful at typical distances.

Parallax is a focal condition where the cross hairs need to be in the same focal plane as the distance. Here's how I describe it .... place your rifle in a sturdy rest then put the cross hairs dead center on a target down range. Without moving the rifle, if parallax is correct, when you move your eye up/down, left/right, the cross hairs will stay positioned directly on the bullseye. If the cross hairs appear to drift when you move your eye, parallax is NOT correct. When parallax is not correct for the distance you are shooting, there can be enough cross hair "drift" to account for up to 6" of movement. What this means is ... you may appear to have the cross hairs directly on the target and still miss by as much as 6" due to the cross hairs not being in the same focal plane. Centerfire rifle scopes are factory parallax corrected for 100~150 yards. Rimfire scopes are parallax corrected for 50 yards, which is a much more practical shooting distance for a 22. However if the target is closer or further than 50 yards parallax can still cause you to miss your target by several inches.

Some scopes have an Adjustable Objective lens that is calibrated in yards/meters called an AO. Some have a "side dial", also calibrated in yards/meters. These adjustable features allow the shooter to correct for parallax at virtually any distance from 10 yards to infinity. This adjustment does not affect zero ... just corrects parallax to match your shooting distance Typically these features are not found on rim fire scopes, rather high power rifle scopes with magnifications of 9~10x or more.

Bullet Drop Compensation .... in theory, this is a great idea but in practical use ... not so good. Before the different distance indicators in the scope will "callibrate", you must use the right ammo and have the right barrel length so muzzle velocity will match the factory calibrations .... lower MV, more bullet drop. Further, BDCs only work at the highest magnification setting so you might as well just buy a fixed power scope. At best, they are nothing more than a "guess." I've tried several different scopes with BDCs and none of them were remotely close. There is another type of reticle called a "Mil-Dot", where each horizontial or vertical dot is calibrated in MOA. These work well but it takes a lot of testing to see exactly where your bullets will strike at different distances. Once you record the information, it is repeatable until you change ammo. Mil-Dots are also useful for compensating for wind.

Objective (front) lens diameter .... on the plus side, the larger the objective lens, the more light it allows in. Also, the larger the lens, the better the edge and center sharpness will be. There is a downside to large objective lenses and that is finding scope rings that are high enough where the front lens bell clears the barrel. Also, scopes with large objective lenses are typically longer and heavier ... no big deal for a bench gun but it could be a deal breaker for a hunting gun.

So .... based on the above, I have some recommendations that come from many years of playing with different optics on 22 rifles. First, I wouldn't spend money on a BDC scope, rather I would use it to invest in features that matter more ... such as a variable parallax adjustment ...AO lens or preferably a side dial. Next, I wouldn't buy a 22 scope with more than 12x max magnification ... preferably 9 or 10x, primarily because the lowest power setting is still too high for off hand shooting. For bench rest shooting only ... magnification may be extended much more but you still have to deal with all the negative aspects such as field of view, distortion, critical parallax, critical eye relief, etc that come with more magnification.

After buying and trying many different brands and models (as evidenced by my goodie box) I finally found a scope that best fits my needs for target shooting. I liked my first one on my bolt gun so much that I bought a second one for my 10/22 target gun. Here's the scope I highly recommend for your intended use:



This is a 3~10x Nikko Sterling 42mm "Night Eater" with a side dial. Here's a link: Nikko Stirling Platinum Nighteater Rifle Scope 3-10x 42mm Side Focus

I've found the optics quality excellent ... not quite as perfect as a $600 Leupold but just as good as my Nikon. Edge and center focus is great and because it was intended for a high power rifle, it is an overkill for a 22 LR when it comes to being sturdy. The price is about the same as the Nikon you were considering.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by Iowegan; September 15th, 2012 at 03:12 PM.
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Old September 15th, 2012, 03:53 PM   #7
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North country gal, Looks like you had better luck with your BDC than I did. Mine just would not correlate better than a couple inches at distances beyond 75 yards. I even bought one of the BSA "Sweet 22" scopes that is supposed to compensate for different bullet weights ... it didn't plus it is a real piece of junk .... horrible optics, the side dial takes three healthy men to turn, and it's ugly and now laying in my goodie box with many other scopes. I wouldn't even consider giving it away to anyone I know.

Rather than use a BDC system, I print and laminate charts for all my scoped guns. For my 22s, I have charts for several different types of ammo ... like 40 gr CCI Mini-Mags, 32 gr Federal Bulkpacks, etc. The only chart I have in Photobucket is for my MK III but I think you can get an idea of how it is used. All I need to know is the distance and the chart will tell me how much to hold over (or under). I've found these Ballistic Explorer charts are dead on, providing you chronograph your load in a specific gun, then plug the actual velocity, bullet weight, and BC into the input screen. I take these charts to the range along with my laser range finder ... a deadly accurate combination. I also use charts like this for prairie doggin' with my 223 Rem ... one shot, one kill nearly every time at 300 yds or less.

Here's a 50 yard chart for my MK III, 5 1/2" BBL, 40 gr CCI Mini-Mags, 25 yard zero with a 2x scope: The horizontal line labeled 0.00 is the line of sight. The red line is the bullet path. Note the bullet crosses the line of sight twice ... once at 13.9 yards and again at 25 yds. Also note, the bullet starts off 3/4" low because the muzzle is 3/4" below the scope's line of sight.


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Old September 15th, 2012, 04:33 PM   #8
 
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Iowegan, the BDC 150 has worked well for me out to about 100 yards and it's been especially useful for those 50 yard and 75 yard settings, allowing me to quickly go from 25 yards to 100 yards with my 22 rifles and my Charger, all the while keeping my shots within an inch or so of where I aim with no guessing as to holdover. Beyond 100 yards, I'm with you - why bother? I have better guns for that game than a 22 LR rifle or pistol.

The one very important factor that I should have mentioned and stressed is that I am shooting at fixed, known distances at an established shooting range using stick on targets of known size, so there's no guesswork involved as to distance and not a lot of surprises as to where my POI will be, assuming I've done my part. Shooting my 22s at various distances adds a lot of spice to my range shooting and for that, the BDC works beautifully. It gives me a gun that is sighted in, not for one distance, but several.

Would I use the BDC 150 on my 22s, out in the field at unknown distances and on targets of varying sizes? Probably not. Just all a bit too busy and complicated for this gal under field conditions. Sure, I could use a laser rangefinder to get the distance, but I'll be damned if I'm going to take a computer program with me and start punching in numbers or carrying a folder full of notes, because, yes, change the magnification on a BDC scope and the distance values of the BDC circles change, too. At the range, shooting from a rest, I have the luxury of staying with a single, pre-determined magnification. Out in the field, anything goes as to the shooting position I use and the magnification I choose.

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Old September 15th, 2012, 04:46 PM   #9
 
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ow that is a lot to digest

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Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
ARP, Any decent scope will improve your aim but no scope will change the trajectory of a bullet. Herein lies the problem with shooting at extended distances with a 22 LR.

Because 22 LRs aren't very high velocity to start with (compared to a center fire), they will drop a lot at distances beyond 75 yards. Additionally, 22 LR bullets have a very poor ballistic coefficient, which means they aren't very aerodynamic and are affected a lot by wind. So ... even though a 22 LR bullet will easily travel several hundred yards, accuracy can go from "mouse ear" groups at 50 yards to "shotgun" patterns at 100 yards and beyond.

I use Ballistic Explorer and plotted a 40 gr 22 LR with a MV of 1255 fps and a zero-in distance of 50 yards. At 100 yards, the bullet drops about 5.5" and at 150 yards, right at 20 inches. Further, a mere 10 mph side wind (hardly noticeable) will drive a 22 LR bullet about 5" off target at 100 yds and over 10" at 150 yards.

To get full advertised muzzle velocity, you need a closed breach rifle (ie bolt action) and a 24" barrel. Any barrel shorter than 24" is going to reduce MV plus any semi-auto is going to rob some of the power to operate the action. I have a CZ 452-2E (bolt action) with a 24" barrel. With 40 gr CCI Mini-Mags, it chronographs right at the factory spec of 1250 fps. My 10/22 with a 20" match grade barrel chronos at 1175 fps and my 10/22 with a factory 18.5" barrel chronos at 1150 fps with the same ammo ... a full 100 fps slower than advertised spec. I'm sure your SIG 522 would chrono even lower. When you plot these lower velocities, 22 LR bullets drop considerably more and are blown off course more by wind.

I guess what I'm trying to say is ... 100 yds is a lot to ask of any 22 LR rifle and any distance beyond that is even worse. Most 22 LR shooters limit their range to 50~75 yards. Yes, you can still hit a gong at extended distances but don't expect tight groups, especially with a standard factory barrel.

On to scopes .... I learned a long time ago to try to match my optics to the gun. It's counter productive to put a high $$$ scope on a factory 10/22 when a less expensive model will still out perform the rifle. Nikon is an excellent brand with excellent optics ... no argument there. Personally, I tend to buy scopes for 22s that are much better quality than necessary ... primarily to get the magnification and other features I want.

Magnification .... probably the biggest downfall of many scope buyers. For center fire rifles shooting at Bambi sized game ... 1x per 25 yards of effective shooting distance is optimum. In other words, a 3~9x scope is well suited for distances of 75 to 225 yards, which coincidentally is about the max effective range for most center fire hunting rifles. Using the 1x per 25 yds concept makes the target appear like it was 25 yards away anywhere within its zoom range. For 22 LR rifles, the target is more "Thumper" sized so the standard is 1x per 10 yards. Optimum magnification for a 22 LR rifle is 3~10x (30~100 yds). A 3~9x is also suitable. If you bench rest shoot, magnification is not a big deal ... more could be better. But if you shoot off hand (no rest), you will find magnification works against you rather than for you. At 4x, you can actually see the effects of your heart beat ... at 9 or 10x, you can't hold the gun still enough to stay on target. Zoom range is also an important issue ... most scopes have about a 3:1 zoom range so if max magnification is 15x, minimum would be about 5x ... too powerful to use without a rest. Again, this makes a 3~9x or a 3~10x way more useful at typical distances.

Parallax is a focal condition where the cross hairs need to be in the same focal plane as the distance. Here's how I describe it .... place your rifle in a sturdy rest then put the cross hairs dead center on a target down range. Without moving the rifle, if parallax is correct, when you move your eye up/down, left/right, the cross hairs will stay positioned directly on the bullseye. If the cross hairs appear to drift when you move your eye, parallax is NOT correct. When parallax is not correct for the distance you are shooting, there can be enough cross hair "drift" to account for up to 6" of movement. What this means is ... you may appear to have the cross hairs directly on the target and still miss by as much as 6" due to the cross hairs not being in the same focal plane. Centerfire rifle scopes are factory parallax corrected for 100~150 yards. Rimfire scopes are parallax corrected for 50 yards, which is a much more practical shooting distance for a 22. However if the target is closer or further than 50 yards parallax can still cause you to miss your target by several inches.

Some scopes have an Adjustable Objective lens that is calibrated in yards/meters called an AO. Some have a "side dial", also calibrated in yards/meters. These adjustable features allow the shooter to correct for parallax at virtually any distance from 10 yards to infinity. This adjustment does not affect zero ... just corrects parallax to match your shooting distance Typically these features are not found on rim fire scopes, rather high power rifle scopes with magnifications of 9~10x or more.

Bullet Drop Compensation .... in theory, this is a great idea but in practical use ... not so good. Before the different distance indicators in the scope will "callibrate", you must use the right ammo and have the right barrel length so muzzle velocity will match the factory calibrations .... lower MV, more bullet drop. Further, BDCs only work at the highest magnification setting so you might as well just buy a fixed power scope. At best, they are nothing more than a "guess." I've tried several different scopes with BDCs and none of them were remotely close. There is another type of reticle called a "Mil-Dot", where each horizontial or vertical dot is calibrated in MOA. These work well but it takes a lot of testing to see exactly where your bullets will strike at different distances. Once you record the information, it is repeatable until you change ammo. Mil-Dots are also useful for compensating for wind.

Objective (front) lens diameter .... on the plus side, the larger the objective lens, the more light it allows in. Also, the larger the lens, the better the edge and center sharpness will be. There is a downside to large objective lenses and that is finding scope rings that are high enough where the front lens bell clears the barrel. Also, scopes with large objective lenses are typically longer and heavier ... no big deal for a bench gun but it could be a deal breaker for a hunting gun.

So .... based on the above, I have some recommendations that come from many years of playing with different optics on 22 rifles. First, I wouldn't spend money on a BDC scope, rather I would use it to invest in features that matter more ... such as a variable parallax adjustment ...AO lens or preferably a side dial. Next, I wouldn't buy a 22 scope with more than 12x max magnification ... preferably 9 or 10x, primarily because the lowest power setting is still too high for off hand shooting. For bench rest shooting only ... magnification may be extended much more but you still have to deal with all the negative aspects such as field of view, distortion, critical parallax, critical eye relief, etc that come with more magnification.

After buying and trying many different brands and models (as evidenced by my goodie box) I finally found a scope that best fits my needs for target shooting. I liked my first one on my bolt gun so much that I bought a second one for my 10/22 target gun. Here's the scope I highly recommend for your intended use:



This is a 3~10x Nikko Sterling 42mm "Night Eater" with a side dial. Here's a link: Nikko Stirling Platinum Nighteater Rifle Scope 3-10x 42mm Side Focus

I've found the optics quality excellent ... not quite as perfect as a $600 Leupold but just as good as my Nikon. Edge and center focus is great and because it was intended for a high power rifle, it is an overkill for a 22 LR when it comes to being sturdy. The price is about the same as the Nikon you were considering.

Hope this helps.

so based upon your post whichever scope I go with I should skip a scope with BDC based upon your reasons suggested? Going to poke around the web a bit on the Nikko scope, did not have glowing reviews at Midway, 50%. You also mention that you have tried various BDC scopes and did not sound too impressed with the theory, did you try the Nikon, specifically the P-22?

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Old September 15th, 2012, 07:50 PM   #10
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North country gal, I can see where a BDC would work better for your application when you are shooting from known fixed distances. My favorite pastime is to go with my shooting buddy to the farm range with several scoped 22s and see just how accurate we can get. The "range" (loose term) is nothing more than a grassy area about 50 feet wide beside a corn field with a 200 ft hill as a backstop on one end and a nice sturdy shooting bench on the other. A few years ago I scrounged several "hurdles" when the local track team coach threw them away. They make great target stands when in the "high hurdle" mode ... just staple targets between the boards and you're good to go. Being totally portable, we can set the hurdles at any distance from point blank to 300 yards. Part of our fun is to go down range to change targets then drag the hurdles to a different distance then see if the other guy can hit the 1" orange aiming dot on the first shot.

When I get a new gun, new scope, or just buy a different brand of ammo, I'll grab my laptop, chronograph, and laser range finder and head to the range to have some fun chronographing loads and inputting data into the laptop. I then sight my handguns in at 25 yards, 22 LR rifles at 50 yards, and high power rifles at 100 yards. From there, it's just a matter of charting the specific combination with Ballistic Explorer. Once I get home, I print a 3x5 sized card then laminate it with clear packing tape and store the card in my shooting box. Meanwhile back at the range, when I get a fix on a random target with the laser, all I have to do is look at the chart and find the holdover for that distance. With my target 10/22, Marlin 39A, or my CZ, I can usually maintain two bullet diameter accuracy out to 75 yards ... unless of course the wind is blowing. On occasion, I will get lucky and make one tight tattered hole ... that makes me smile. As you can see from the above chart, bullet drops are measured in 1/4" increments on a 50 yard chart or 1/2" increments on a 100 yard chart so it is very easy with a sight-in target (the ones with 1" squares) to predict how much to hold over.

I've only used this system "in the field" when I shoot prairie dogs with one of my center fire varmint rifles ... again just take a distance measurement with the laser and take a look at the printed chart (no chronograph, no laptop, just a 3x5 card). If the chart says to hold over by 3.7" at 234 yards ... that's what I do ... bang ding ... dead prairie dog ... rarely miss at any reasonable distance unless the wind gets wild.

I own a couple Mil-Dot scopes and had great success after taking the time to learn how to use them. This gets pretty math intensive unless you are a Navy Seal and have MOAs and Mil-Dots ingrained in your brain. I found for fun shooting, there's just too much to remember so I prefer easier methods. That's when I tried BDC scopes. I have several to include a Nikon 2~8x with a 600 yd BDC. I also have Burris 3.5~10x with their "Ballistic Plex" reticle and a 22 rimfire Buris with the Rapid Reticle, not to mention the dog puke BSA Sweet 22. I think all these scopes accomplish the basics and get you reasonably close but none of them are exact enough for me.

ARP, No, I have never tried the Nikon P-22 but if it is anything like other Nikon scopes, it probably has excellent optical quality as well as a mechanical quality. All BDC systems work the same so I can't imagine Nikon putting their name on anything that wasn't good. I will say this ... a Nikon P-22 is not going to improve the accuracy of your factory 10/22 any more than a rim fire scope costing half as much. I would bet ... after you get a scope mounted and sighted in, you will be back on the forum asking how to accurize your 10/22.

As I mentioned above, if you plan on shooting at multiple distances, your money would be better spent on a scope with an adjustable parallax. As for the ratings at Midway ... I take those with a grain of salt. Some people try to compare a $150 Nikko with a $600 Leupold and that just doesn't work. Both of mine are excellent, bought at different times from different stores. Although the Nikko is designed for high power rifles, I have never tried one on any of my high powers so that may be another reason for a lower rating. I do know they are great on a 22 LR and have all the features I want. Even though they are quite heavy and long for a 10/22, I don't mind at all because I never plan to hunt or even carry the gun farther than from the car to the shooting bench.

As usual ... your scope, your money .... just trying to pass on a few things I learned the hard way.

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Old September 15th, 2012, 10:22 PM   #11
 
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Whoops forgot to mention

I have had multiple postings about a 10/22 I am planning to buy, forgot to mention about the upgrades I was planning to do(a few parts or perhaps full trigger job, stock and barrel) but had settled on the Nikon scope for the project as I could use it temporarily with my 522 as the 10/22 was being transformed. In another thread I was asking if I should try to find a 10/22 target model(rare as hens teeth) or buy a base and customize. It was kinda lengthy with lots of responses, I did not make the mental connection that that info was not provided in my original post.

The range available to me I think is under 150yds, I may go check on that today, fairly certain one side is 50+yds and the other side is heavy cal rifles, yds unknown.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 11:25 AM   #12
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Although we are drifting off topic ... there's some things I would like to address concerning accuracy. If you clamp down a rifle in a device (similar to a Ransom Rest for handguns) and find the best threshold accuracy it can achieve is a 2" group at 50 yards with its preferred ammo, no scope in the world is going to make the gun shoot better than a 2" group. Likewise, no trigger pull or accessory is going to improve accuracy beyond it's threshold.

In order to improve accuracy, you must find the sources of inaccuracy and correct them. Once these issues have been located and corrected where the gun starts shooting tight groups from a Ransom Rest type device, you can start working on "human interface" issues like trigger pull, stocks, sights/scopes, etc. I've seen many gun owners chaise their tail by mounting an expensive scope or dumping a bunch of money in a trigger job then get very disappointed because the gun doesn't really shoot any better than it did before. In fact, many of the modifications are just "bling" that have absolutely nothing to do with accuracy or function ... just a way to spend more $$$.

In order of importance for a 10/22, here are the know issues that directly affect the gun's ability to group tight:

Ruger factory barrels have very "generous" chambers so they will feed a wide variety of ammo without jamming. Loose chambers are a know source of accuracy issues and the only option for improvement is to cut the factory barrel back to remove the old chamber then ream a new chamber with a "Bentz" type reamer. Of course this takes considerable gunsmithing skills and still doesn't address other barrel issues.

Factory barrels typically do not have tight spec bores and are not polished. Additionally, factory barrel tapers do not eliminate harmonics. So the best solution to eliminate at least three know barrel accuracy issues (chamber, bore, and taper) is to replace the barrel with a match grade bull barrel (.920" diameter is standard). Of course the factory stock will not work with a larger diameter barrel so you either have to rout out the barrel channel in the factory stock or replace it with a stock having the proper sized barrel channel.

In nearly all cases, a decent aftermarket barrel will improve accuracy dramatically, especially when coupled to a good stock that fits the receiver and barrel as perfectly as possible. The downside ... tight chambered match grade barrels are way more ammo fussy and jam frequently with cheaper grades of ammo.

The next couple issues generally improve accuracy a bit more. Ruger 10/22s typically have very generous headspace. This is designed so the gun won't "slam fire" when the bolt springs forward. Loose headspace allows the cartridge to move back and forth inside the chamber, even in match grade barrels. By dressing the bolt face down to a more precise headspace spec, it will prevent cartridge movement in the chamber yet not be so tight where a slam fire could happen.

The last issue is the way the scope mounts to the receiver. Because iron sights are mounted directly on the barrel, if there is any movement between the receiver and barrel, it won't affect accuracy at all. However, when a scope is mounted on the receiver and there is the slightest amount of movement between the barrel and receiver, scoped groups can open up significantly. Even if the "V" block is torqued down properly, the high impact between the bolt face and the barrel can cause the barrel to shift slightly inside the aluminum receiver's barrel channel. Shims can be used to tighten the barrel-to-receiver fit in cases where the "V" block screws were over torqued and stretched the receiver. The optimum fix for barrel-to-receiver movement is to use a mid-eye relief scope that is mounted directly on the barrel. Usually this isn't necessary unless the receiver was stretched or damaged, however a barrel mounted scope will usually shrink groups a tad in all 10/22s.

I realize this is a bit off topic and probably belongs in the gunsmithing section, but it is related to your scope selection issue. If you "take care of business" with your 10/22, I can almost guarantee you will be satisfied with its accuracy.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 11:36 AM   #13
 
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ARP: I would just suggest buying the Nikon Prostaff 3-9x40 Nikoplex It is more than enough if you are just shooting up to 100 yards. Here is the link to it on Amazon for $148.99

Amazon.com: Nikon ProStaff 3-9 x 40 Black Matte Riflescope (Nikoplex): Sports & Outdoors

Medium height scope rings by DNZ $59.99

DNZ Products Game Reaper 1-Piece Scope Base 1tegral Rings Ruger 10/22
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Old September 16th, 2012, 04:31 PM   #14
 
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Not too far off topic, all related

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
Although we are drifting off topic ... there's some things I would like to address concerning accuracy. If you clamp down a rifle in a device (similar to a Ransom Rest for handguns) and find the best threshold accuracy it can achieve is a 2" group at 50 yards with its preferred ammo, no scope in the world is going to make the gun shoot better than a 2" group. Likewise, no trigger pull or accessory is going to improve accuracy beyond it's threshold.

In order to improve accuracy, you must find the sources of inaccuracy and correct them. Once these issues have been located and corrected where the gun starts shooting tight groups from a Ransom Rest type device, you can start working on "human interface" issues like trigger pull, stocks, sights/scopes, etc. I've seen many gun owners chaise their tail by mounting an expensive scope or dumping a bunch of money in a trigger job then get very disappointed because the gun doesn't really shoot any better than it did before. In fact, many of the modifications are just "bling" that have absolutely nothing to do with accuracy or function ... just a way to spend more $$$.

In order of importance for a 10/22, here are the know issues that directly affect the gun's ability to group tight:

Ruger factory barrels have very "generous" chambers so they will feed a wide variety of ammo without jamming. Loose chambers are a know source of accuracy issues and the only option for improvement is to cut the factory barrel back to remove the old chamber then ream a new chamber with a "Bentz" type reamer. Of course this takes considerable gunsmithing skills and still doesn't address other barrel issues.

Factory barrels typically do not have tight spec bores and are not polished. Additionally, factory barrel tapers do not eliminate harmonics. So the best solution to eliminate at least three know barrel accuracy issues (chamber, bore, and taper) is to replace the barrel with a match grade bull barrel (.920" diameter is standard). Of course the factory stock will not work with a larger diameter barrel so you either have to rout out the barrel channel in the factory stock or replace it with a stock having the proper sized barrel channel.

In nearly all cases, a decent aftermarket barrel will improve accuracy dramatically, especially when coupled to a good stock that fits the receiver and barrel as perfectly as possible. The downside ... tight chambered match grade barrels are way more ammo fussy and jam frequently with cheaper grades of ammo.

The next couple issues generally improve accuracy a bit more. Ruger 10/22s typically have very generous headspace. This is designed so the gun won't "slam fire" when the bolt springs forward. Loose headspace allows the cartridge to move back and forth inside the chamber, even in match grade barrels. By dressing the bolt face down to a more precise headspace spec, it will prevent cartridge movement in the chamber yet not be so tight where a slam fire could happen.

The last issue is the way the scope mounts to the receiver. Because iron sights are mounted directly on the barrel, if there is any movement between the receiver and barrel, it won't affect accuracy at all. However, when a scope is mounted on the receiver and there is the slightest amount of movement between the barrel and receiver, scoped groups can open up significantly. Even if the "V" block is torqued down properly, the high impact between the bolt face and the barrel can cause the barrel to shift slightly inside the aluminum receiver's barrel channel. Shims can be used to tighten the barrel-to-receiver fit in cases where the "V" block screws were over torqued and stretched the receiver. The optimum fix for barrel-to-receiver movement is to use a mid-eye relief scope that is mounted directly on the barrel. Usually this isn't necessary unless the receiver was stretched or damaged, however a barrel mounted scope will usually shrink groups a tad in all 10/22s.

I realize this is a bit off topic and probably belongs in the gunsmithing section, but it is related to your scope selection issue. If you "take care of business" with your 10/22, I can almost guarantee you will be satisfied with its accuracy.
I'm thinking that I will be going with a Green Mountain 20" target barrel mated to a Houge synthetic (non rubber) stock, not into the thumb hole type stocks, like the look and feel of it. I know there are more expensive options out there, this is not about me spending as much as possible to build the ultimate 10/22.

I got out to the range I use today, but could not shoot. National Trap Shoot Day or something like that. Place was packed. So when there is an event like that going on, my access is restricted unless i want to shoot trap. I took a good look at the range where I will be shooting the 10/22, looks to be about 100 yds sort of tilting downhill from the bench, with an additional 50 yards or better tilting up hill. Since the place is sort of vacant in the winter I'm thinking I could set up a run and gun course for fun as there is a small patch of woods that runs along a trickle of a stream at about the 100 yd spot.

Last edited by ARP; September 16th, 2012 at 04:36 PM.
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Old September 16th, 2012, 04:47 PM   #15
 
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I think I just lernt something

Quote:
Originally Posted by North country gal View Post
Iowegan, the BDC 150 has worked well for me out to about 100 yards and it's been especially useful for those 50 yard and 75 yard settings, allowing me to quickly go from 25 yards to 100 yards with my 22 rifles and my Charger, all the while keeping my shots within an inch or so of where I aim with no guessing as to holdover. Beyond 100 yards, I'm with you - why bother? I have better guns for that game than a 22 LR rifle or pistol.

The one very important factor that I should have mentioned and stressed is that I am shooting at fixed, known distances at an established shooting range using stick on targets of known size, so there's no guesswork involved as to distance and not a lot of surprises as to where my POI will be, assuming I've done my part. Shooting my 22s at various distances adds a lot of spice to my range shooting and for that, the BDC works beautifully. It gives me a gun that is sighted in, not for one distance, but several.

Would I use the BDC 150 on my 22s, out in the field at unknown distances and on targets of varying sizes? Probably not. Just all a bit too busy and complicated for this gal under field conditions. Sure, I could use a laser rangefinder to get the distance, but I'll be damned if I'm going to take a computer program with me and start punching in numbers or carrying a folder full of notes, because, yes, change the magnification on a BDC scope and the distance values of the BDC circles change, too. At the range, shooting from a rest, I have the luxury of staying with a single, pre-determined magnification. Out in the field, anything goes as to the shooting position I use and the magnification I choose.
was reading your post about the BDC150, you mention when you change your magnification your BDC next step down circle changes. Let me make sure I understand this, if you would change the magnification from 5x to 7x your distnace change from ring to ring = what? if it was 25yds at 5x what would 7x be?
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