ZommyGun

To Leupold or not to Leupold...that is the question...lol...

Most people say you get what you pay for...

I say ONLY if you are both diligent AND lucky...lol...

What they should say is you DON'T get what you DON'T pay for...that is almost always true...

I have only ever owned one scope in my 50+ years of rifle ownership...and it has been used very little...it is a Simmons Pro-Air 4-12x40 AO/TT-1/8moa...bought in the 90's for my son's competition 22 pellet rifle...gun is long gone...scope was later transferred to 10/22...but mostly left off and not used...

This scope as some nice "features" for competition target shooting...and enough power to get me by in SB Silhouette...I don't have the gun to shoot silhouette...I want to shoot silhouette because I have the gun...I am not interested in getting the "right" gun for silhouette...just sayn to avoid that whole routine of why spend money on a 10/22...

The "optics" and "clarity" and "brightness" of this Simmons are all way more than good enough for me and my 10/22...

The main complaints I have about this scope are the weight at 20 oz...followed by the length at 13" and the fact that most of the weight is in the objective and therefore forward of the receiver...

However, it has come to my attention that it does not hold zero...!!!

I was having some real problems from bench rest at 100 yards on paper targets...started reading up on scopes...how to test them etc...prior to that it seemed to adjust the POI to POA just fine and so I didn't care as long as it worked...

So I got one of those laser bore-sight gizmos...the bullet-in-the-chamber type...works real well...

I got a sheet of 1" grid paper and made sure the elevation range was set such that 25-100 yards was right in the middle of the elevation travel...no problem...

Then I tested the tracking for both elevation and windage thru the entire adjustment range (spec'd at 80 moa but really only 75)...tracked it relative to the laser at 30' and again at 100'...spot on up/down and all around...and repeated...several times over... NO PROBLEM...at that point I was thinking "hey...this scope is pretty good after all...lol..."

Went back out to range...bore sight zero at 100' was dead-on for elevation at 25 yards with cold barrel...and windage was off by about 10moa...again I was thinking it was going well...

Set target out to 100 yards...got it dialed in...started trying to see what I could get for groups...didn't go well...wind was blowing like hell...figured that was the problem...then decided to punish some rocks on the berm behind the 100 yard paper...dialed in on a rock not much bigger than a soda can...three shots dead on then suddenly next few shots were 6" low...dialed in again...three to five shots dead on...then all of sudden all shots about 6" high...dialed in again...dead on for a few shots then low again...returned home and bore sight elevation setting for zero at 100' had decreased by about 8-9 moa...took the bore sight out...and back in two more times...repeated exactly...so it was not the bore sight inconsistency causing that change...

So I am sure that it was not the wind, barrel, ammo, or me...between "changes" it was hitting in the same spot every time...not sure about group size but that is another subject...lol..

So here I am...got a scope I don't like because it is too long and too heavy...tracks great...resets and repeats great... and fine for features and optics...but won't hold zero...

Theoretically it has a lifetime warranty and Bushnell said send it in...that will cost me $20 shipping both ways...and there is no GUARANTEE they will do the work under warranty...and if it has the same problem again later...it will be at least another $20 to let them fix it again...and I have read a few reports of warranty repairs of all brands including Leupold where the customer said it took forever and came back still not working...

Soooooooo..........

To Leupold or NOT is the question....lol...

I have a question also about the Leupold that I have not yet gotten answered by anyone...

They make a VX-1 rimfire 2-7 and a vx-2 rimfire 2-7...looking at the specs on Leupold website I cannot see any difference between the two other than $100 price and a 2% increase in light transmission...

What am I missing...

Three Leupold models I am considering at this time are the two above and the 3-9x33 AO...

Considering also the Weaver RV-9 3-9x32 AO...

"features" not with standing...is there any one brand that truly stands above the rest and within brands is there a big difference between model levels with regard to what actually matters most...holding zero...linear tracking...highly repeatable settings...

To Leupold or not to Leupold...that is the question...

Ruger41

If you can go to a Cabelas or Bass Pro etc and see for yourself. Put a Simmons up to your eye and then Leupold. You do get what you pay for. Burris also makes nice scopes. I have a Bushnell 3x9 on a cheapie Remington 710 and a Leupold Vari X II ob an older Ruger 77. Theres no comparison as to which is the better scope.

2296mag

A fan yes go for it quality goes a long way and you can pick off that gold ring sell it recover the cash outlay

jlh820

Bushnell makes quality scopes. They also make budget scopes. However not holding zero is often not the scopes fault. Look up mounting scopes on YouTube and look for videos put out by NSSF. Try their info before buying a new scope.

Leupold makes great stuff but you pay for it. Bushnell also makes good stuff. I swear by my Bushnell Elite 6500.

James6591

Yes..... Leupold.

http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shoot...l-3-5-10x50mm/

PowPow

If you are shooting paper with 22's in broad daylight, the light transmission may not be the most important factor. I have only noticed the difference in light transmission at the end of the day hunting, and Leupold wins in the <$500 price range.

I have used Bushnell Banners, Leupold VX-II's, and now a Simmon "22 mag" scope, for centerfire and rimfire. To me, the most important buy factors for rimfire were recticle size and paralax. Also scope size; you may not want your scope to resemble that thing that flipped over the Flintstone's car.

Leupold uses fine recticles for rimfire scopes, which doesn't cover up the center of the target, where the Banner's thick recticle did. The Simmons has a decent recticle, but I plan to use it for hunting.

Parallax adjustment is nice for 22's. My Leu VX-II 3-9x32 AO has it and it makes a difference when changing from 25-50-100 yard targets. You don't have to get the AO perfect, just close. My Leu FX-1 4x28 has a 60 yard paralax and is dead on at 50 and a little sloppy at 100; good enough for a coyotes chest at 100, but not very gratifying with paper.

The Leu 3-9x32 AO has markings for 200 & 400 yds that I will never use.
The Simmons 22 mag scope has AO ranges more attuned for a 22; lots of yardage markings between 10 and 100, but no 200 & 400.
For hunting, if you don't want to be fiddling with the AO, jsut set it on what range you think your shot will be and it will be the same as a fixed parallax scop

The Leu is on a CZ that is used for social plinking with style.
The Simmons is on a 10/22 that is a hunting tool. If I drop it or scratch it, I won't cry.

But if one were not able to justify the price of the Leupold, they would not be disappointed in the value of the Simmons 22 mag scope for a 22 rifle,

Benemorte

While I am certainly a fan of Leupold (own enough of the damned things!) I actually prefer Weaver scopes. I would rate them at the top of the list for my needs, with Leupold second, and Burris third. However, there are a ton of other scopes out there that I know from reputation to have top quality that I do not own, such as Zeiss, Swarovski, and Nikon.

While it is true that both Bushnell and Simmons make varying quality lines of scopes, I personally have only had problems with them, and as a result I avoid them no matter what the application now.

There are a few companies out there that make good quality budget scopes though, Leatherwood comes to mind. Keep researching and find one that suits your particular needs. As stated in an previous post though, try to stick to a very fine reticle if your eyes can handle it when planning to put it on a .22 caliber weapon.

Marine Division Two

Love the Leupolds vari lux II,have them on all my rifles !

ZommyGun

Thanks for the replies and information...

I will re-evaluate the mounting but I think it is solid...I am 98% sure it is the scope bouncing internally...there are two alternative mounts to what I have that I was considering...the Leupold 1pc with gross windage screw and standard twist-in front ring and also considering the DNZ one-piece billet ring/base...the gross windage is a good feature...and so is the uni-body/billet...I suppose it would depend on the scope and it's internal adjustment range as to which would actually work best all things considered...but that is another topic....

The Simmons I have would get repaired if I thought it was worth the time and shipping costs to send it in...just not sure it's worth it...not going to replace it with another Simmons...

The points you all make regarding the fine reticules are well taken and the only scope I was considering getting that is not a Leupold rim-fire w/ fine reticule is the Weaver RV9...

Features not with standing I am primarily concerned with holding zero, linear tracking, highly repeatable settings for brand vs brand in the $200-$400 range...and model vs model among the Leupold rim-fires...

I already know I can live with a max zoom of 9x... not sure about 7x... 7x is marginal...but reduced weight, increased moa adjustment range and lower cost will more than make up for it if I can hit a 1/5 Ram at 100m...

And in a 2-7 zoom I can live with 60 yd parallax...going to 3-9 it would have to be AO...at that point the weight difference is small and so is the increase in cost...the higher the magnification the more benefit of the focus...

Rock solid...linear...repeatable...finger adjustment click...1/4moa...lightest possible...price range...all the scopes in the good quality range are more than good enough clarity and brightness for me...

Those priorities are what narrowed the field to the four scopes I am considering...three of them are Leupold...one is a Weaver...

The price difference between the VX-1 and the VX-2 is $100...

What is the difference in reliability and features...what do you get for a $100 in a VX-2 that you don't get in a VX-1...

According to the Leupold website they are exactly the same with regard to all the things I want so what justifies the price increase and model distinction...

This webpage has the three Leupold scopes I am considering... http://www.leupold.com/hunting-shoot...t-riflescopes/

I really want to know...

Thanks...

PowPow

The difference in VX-I and VX-II is coatings, which affect light gathering near dark. The parallax on a VX-I is fixed at 100 yards. VX-II's are 100 for regular models, 60 for rimfire models, and adjustable for AO models. Those are the only differences I am aware of.

ZommyGun

t is hard to understand why they would need an additional $100 to cover the cost of upgraded coatings...but I suppose it could be the case...

My real concern there is that the vx-1 would have cheaper made internal components and thus not be as reliable and repeatable as the more expensive model...

Thank you for all the inputs in your first reply...

Please elaborate on the 60 yard parallax on your FX-1...

I base my opinion regarding the need for AO on setting my Simmons AO at 50/60/75 and the zoom at 7x and looking at small targets in the 100m range...

The poster above referenced TheNSSF on youtube...definitely lots of good stuff there...a lot of it is intuitively obvious to me but I always manage to learn something reviewing the basics of anything...

One thing that hit home was one of the videos the instructor spoke about how the parallax adjustment works and why...it struck me that there is more to it than simply a clear image...and that actual accuracy can be compromised...

So with that I would ask you if you think the aim point is unreliable at 100m (110 yards) due to parallax or are we simply not happy with the clarity...

Just to drive home my priorities here I want the least weight/cost scope that will give me a fair chance hitting a pop can at 110 yards...a pop can is a fair comparison to a 1/5 SB Ram...

Reliability/repeatability and easy adjustments are essential...and if the AO is a true essential then that is what I will get...

That is why I am considering the Weaver RV9... the weight is at the upper limit... it does not have fine reticule...however for the price being similiar to the VX-1 rimfire... if it is just as reliable as the Leupold it might be the right one for me...

I am sure all four are good products and also sure that there are other good products as well but I really am focused in on these four scopes...

All puns are intentional...lol...

PowPow

I said 60 yard parallax; technically, should have said "parallax free at 60 yards".

Short of boring phyics that i would have to cut and paste to get rigth: when the parllax is set right (or at the parallax free distance for a fixed) the cross hairs stay on the target even if you eye moves around (if the gun is held still). As the distance increases away from the setting, if the gun is still and your eye moves a little, if gives the appearance of the cross hairs moving around, and you are not really sure if the gun is pointing at what you want to shoot. Causes bigger groups on paper.

Adjustable Objectives (AO) take the wobble out of the crosshairs. A little better focus is an incidental benefit.

(is that what you were asking)

Smithy

I had Burris problems early on and have been a Leupold guy ever since and have not been disappointed in the least. If you're asking why the rim-fire scopes are 100 bucks less than their center-fire equivalent? I don't know the answer to that one? If I were to top a rim-fire I'd have no problems with a Leupold rim-fire scope. Would I use that same scope on a center-fire? No I think that I'd get a center-fire scope. It may be that they're just built a little stouter. Smithy.

bwinters

I have had Leupold scopes for many years and I have had Burris and other scopes ab=nd for the price I have never found anything to match the Leupold.

luvtofish40

I have to agree, the quality of glass that they use now a days is great! I bought a bushnell elite tactical for my 30-06, and talk about holding a zero! This rifle has a lot of recoil, and the scope track's very well. This scope is something that you will have for a very long time. So look at every option!