Ruger Forum

ZommyGun · August 20th, 2012, 08:25 AM

Thank you all for your inputs... greatly appreciated...

Quote:

Originally Posted by PowPow

I said 60 yard parallax; technically, should have said "parallax free at 60 yards".

Short of boring phyics that i would have to cut and paste to get rigth: when the parllax is set right (or at the parallax free distance for a fixed) the cross hairs stay on the target even if you eye moves around (if the gun is held still). As the distance increases away from the setting, if the gun is still and your eye moves a little, if gives the appearance of the cross hairs moving around, and you are not really sure if the gun is pointing at what you want to shoot. Causes bigger groups on paper.

Adjustable Objectives (AO) take the wobble out of the crosshairs. A little better focus is an incidental benefit.

(is that what you were asking)

Yes...that is exactly what I wanted to know...you explained the critical parameter very well... thank you...

I have seen the cross hair movement a good bit with that simmons with the objective focused...mostly at 100 yards at max power trying really hard to "see" the center of the bullseye...very annoying and I figured it was my eye "twitching"...part of the solution I am sure is to be more relaxed and ignore the cross hairs and just see the whole target...at least that is always what makes for a better shot with iron sights for me anyway...

One thing about holding zero and all that... certainly most scopes of any considerable quality have to be reasonable on average or they would not continue to be on the market for long...and I have no doubt that the "best" scope in the world can be bad or go bad... having said that... what makes or breaks the "best" brand in a price range for me has to be the percentage of scopes that hold up over time...

I know for a fact that simmons never had a problem holding zero when it was new...it is more than 10 years old and was used for lots of shots on the air rifle back in the day...but it was not drug around in the field an banged up ever...100% bench rest target shooting...and now it jumps zero...I don't fell like it was a good investment at this point...

Still hoping to get more feedback from those using the VX-1 2-7x28 rim-fire... Leupold...

I would also like to get opinions regarding the VX-2 2-7x28 with 100 yard parallax...is the fixed 100yrd parallax a problem at closer distances...say 50 yards at 5x...25 yards at 3x...10 yards at 2x...

That might be better for me than the rimfire parallax for 40m-100m use...has to have finger adjustable turrets and 1/4 click...

I would really love to keep the weight down and the scope mounted nice an low...less is better...least is best...just have to know the bullet will go where the cross hairs are...as for the rest it is not supposed to be easy...lol...

brimic · August 20th, 2012, 09:17 AM

I Have a VX-1, and older VX-2 (Which is identical to the newer VX-1), and a Rifleman on different hunting rifles- all 2-7x28s. Never used them on rimfires, so I can't comment on parallex under 100 yards. They are great 'set it and forget it' scopes- the friction adjustments are a bit trikier to set than click adjustments.

I've tried Simmons and Burris- don't like either, I've had problems with simmons scopes with tracking and holding zero, and burris scopes aren't very clear-everyone I looked through looked like you were lookign through a light fog.

For anything more involved than short range hunting applications, I buy Nikon optics.
Nikon>>leupold for the dollar.

Quote:

What is the difference in reliability and features...what do you get for a $100 in a VX-2 that you don't get in a VX-1...

VX-IIs have better coatins and have click adjustments. VX-1s have good coatings, you probably wouldn never notice the difference, but use friction windage and elevation adjustments.

ZommyGun · August 20th, 2012, 10:38 AM

Thanks for all the inputs...you guys are extremely helpful to say the least...

One of the problems sorting out details of models is the changes they make along the way...

Just confirmed by the Leupold on the phone that the ONLY difference at this time between VX-1 and VX-2 is the coating...and according to the rep and the website they both have the same finger adjustable turrets with 1/4 moa clicks...if I buy a VX-1 rimfire scope and it has friction only and no clicks I will be extremely upset...lol...

I was told that the center fire versions are parallax free at 150 yards...so I don't think that would have an advantage for me...

So I am probably going to pop for a vx-1 2-7x28 rim fire...

Quote:

While I am certainly a fan of Leupold (own enough of the damned things!) I actually prefer Weaver scopes.

I am still considering the Weaver RV9 AO... and the Leupold vx-2 EFR...

More money...more weight...and all the extra weight is forward of the balance point...not convinced the extra zoom and AO are a good trade for me but those targets are small and hard to hit off hand at 100 meters...lol...

All the serious competitors use at least 18x zoom and a/o but due to handicap I can't deal with the weight...at 12oz the Weaver and Leupold 3-9x33 AO is the max I will go...period...

The simmons I have 40mm AO at 20 oz is down right painful for me...

MZ5 · August 20th, 2012, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZommyGun

Most people say you get what you pay for...

I say ONLY if you are both diligent AND lucky...lol...

What they should say is you DON'T get what you DON'T pay for...that is almost always true...

EXACTLY!! Finally someone else who actually understands the difference!

I like my VX-II; it's a good scope. I like my Nikon Monarch UCC as well. I personally think it has a little better glass than the Leupold. However, the Leupold may be a slightly better riflescope. The Leupy is unquestionably a better scope than the Nikon Buckmasters that I have, even if the glass is no better. My best scope far and away is my Weaver Tactical, which is nearly identical to the Weaver Super Slam apart from reticle, click type, and total adjustment range, but it was a LOT more expensive than the Leupy.

Leupold scopes are very solid, durable/rugged, and reliable, IMO. They have better eye relief than scopes like Burris, for example, but at least these days, you may have to crawl the stock a little as you adjust the Leupy from lowest to highest magnification (eye relief changes as you zoom, and not just a tenth of an inch). Leupold has perhaps the best warranty and service in the business; certainly they are the high bar everyone else has to aim at (some try and may have matched them; many don't even try). You pay for that warranty up front, though. Whether that's worth it is an entirely personal decision.

Benemorte · August 20th, 2012, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MZ5

My best scope far and away is my Weaver Tactical, which is nearly identical to the Weaver Super Slam apart from reticle, click type, and total adjustment range, but it was a LOT more expensive than the Leupy.

.

The Weaver Tactical line IMO, is the best all around scope for the money. We have been putting them on every new gun purchase applicable since they were released, and if I could afford to switch out all my glass to them I would.

ZommyGun · August 20th, 2012, 01:05 PM

I seriously appreciate all the quality (all puns are intentional

) inputs...

ZommyGun · August 26th, 2012, 12:48 PM

Thanks for all the inputs...ordered a Leupold VX-1 2-7x28 rim-fire...should have an opinion about it in a week or two...

Smithy · August 26th, 2012, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Thanks for all the inputs...ordered a Leupold VX-1 2-7x28 rim-fire...should have an opinion about it in a week or two...

ZommyGun I'm sure that you'll be quite pleased with your optic's choice. That is the very same scope I had chosen for a project of mine, but the gun trade fell through and I never got the chance to check it out mounted. Can't wait to hear how it goes. Smithy.

ZommyGun · August 28th, 2012, 09:21 AM

You got it Smithy...

Ordered it over the weekend from OpticsPlanet and it will be here tomorrow...sweet...

My only concern about it is not with the scope but with me...not sure the SB rams and turkeys will be big enough at 7x...conventional wisdom is 9x absolute minimum with adjustable a/o...it remains to be seen who it works in reality for me...

Smithy · August 28th, 2012, 01:28 PM

Quote:

uger 10/22...pre-plastic... Fajen synthetic thumb-hole stock with the cheek-weld and butt-extensions removed...LOP is 12.5"...Tac-Sol 16" Al BBL...VQ target hammer...PC adjustable sear...stock aluminum trigger modified with adjustable trigger over-travel stop, hole for sear adjustment and re-shaped to fit my finger similiar to a VQ trigger...TI Sharp-Claw extractor....PC lever mag-release...Williams WGRS-54 Peep sight mounted on Weaver T-09 rail...my slip-on AL front globe with KNS-Precision .052" ball post...reasonably smooth trigger at about 3lbs pull with some creep and no slop...total weight at 4.5lbs...nice and light with fantastic balance and quick target acquisition...accurate to 50yards with my old eyes and runs well...I absolutely love this stock with the peep sight on top the receiver...with a scope added the removable cheek-weld just pops-on and is secured with screws..

Wow! Sounds like you'll have quite the rig. Best of luck to you. Smithy.

ZommyGun · August 31st, 2012, 08:08 AM

Thanks Smithy...just for the record I put that stuff in the signature for the benefit of people trying to answer my questions and for anyone that might be interested in general...my goal is to have the lightest NRA legal 10/22 that fits me perfectly and runs well...less is better...unfortunately the least tends to cost the most in both time and money...lol...

Got the scope...mounted it...did some quick tests with laser bore-sight...haven't fired it yet...

I went ahead and paid more for Leupold hoping that the small mechanical details not related to "optical quality" that matter most to me would be there more so than less expensive Weaver equivalent which is what I would have gotten otherwise...

The only scope I have to compare to is my 10+ year old Simmons Pro-Air 4-12x40 AO/TT-1/8 moa...

At this point I am assuming that mechanical quality/accuracy/linearity/repeatability/durability are all there...

The compact size/weight/balance is EXCELLENT for this gun...if the right mounts were available (haven't found them yet and might have to make them myself) it would be perfect...

The fine reticule is worth paying extra money for...

The fixed parallax is less than ideal but bearable...I am willing to make the trade-off of not having an AO and 7x vs 9x to get the size/weight/balance/price of the smaller scope...

Having said that...if the shotgun/muzzle loader parallax setting was available with finger turrets...and with fine reticule I would have gotten it...

I may regret later not getting the Weaver RV-9 AO...time will tell...

The finger turret knob is okay...but much less quality than I expected...the mechanical design of the "clicks" is what I would expect on a cheapo scope...

It is an unfair comparison to make on the one hand to the target turrets of the Simmons since the very low-profile and light-weight don't allow for much more that what is in this Leupold VX-1...on the other hand the Simmons cost a lot less the turret "clicks" are 1/8 instead of 1/4 and far more positive...

Additionally...the VX-1 is sold as having a "resettable-zero"...this is simply not true...I expected the knobs to have set screws and be able to remove the knob and replace it/lock it down with zero aligned to the witness mark at the rear of the turret...this NOT what you get with this scope...what you get is a c-clip at the base of the turret...the c-clip can be rotated to any position to line up with the zero mark on the knob...it is better than nothing...

However...it is nothing more than a movable witness mark...not even close to the same thing as resettable zero...

I would have gotten it anyway...but it would help to not have to buy the product to find out the truth...

I was able to do a quick linearity test with the laser bore-sight...at 100' I set the zero and and added 24moa and the went back to zero and then subtracted 24moa then added 48moa and then subtracted 24moa...

This was done against a block wall with grout joints every 8" high...

Initial test was spot-on...all settings went to and returned from up/down and back to zero dead center on the grout joints...

The linearity/repeat/durabiliy is what counts the most...I have not had time to go thru it in increments to make sure all points thru the whole range but a plus and minus 24moa jump to and reset on the money does tell quite a bit...

The clicks are a bit mushy and you have to read the marks to be sure where you are...not a problem for typical application of this scope...so it is what it is...I hoped for better but it is understandable...my concern here is how well something that flimsy will stand up to a lot of adjusting...I am not concerned about the internals at this time...my intuition tells me they are as good as any and better than most...

NOTHING to do with scope...strictly mounting...the gross windage alignment is a 2/3 to 1/3 split...and as luck would have it...in the wrong direction for me...

Sucks because thus-far I haven't found a mount with windage adjustment that is both low enough and mounts to rear enough for me...

Will post again in this thread when I have had the chance to test the linearity of the elevation and windage accurately in increments getting down to at least 3moa increments...and getting down to 1/2moa in the range of +/- 10moa from 100' zero...

Later,
ZG

trigger creep · September 27th, 2012, 06:46 AM

Leupold is awesome.

ZommyGun · September 27th, 2012, 08:51 AM

Just an update I am quite happy with this VX-1 2-7x28mm with fine duplex...

I really think I got the right one for me with this gun at this time...

Also I was miffed about the zero reset thing...actually it's quite handy...now that I have used a bit...I would not want to be without it...

Not cheap but I do feel at this point I did get what I paid for...including made in USA...

Smithy · September 27th, 2012, 07:28 PM

Zommie Gun, how do you find the "fine duplex" for sight acqusition? Are you able to see the crosshairs against a varied background? I only use Leupold on my big stuff but they all have the normal dual duplex with the fat lines and just a small portion of fine in the middle. I thought of getting one of their 22 scopes, but they were all fine crosshair's. I had worries that my tired ol eyes might have trouble with that set up. Smithy.

ZommyGun · September 28th, 2012, 08:42 AM

The fine duplex is one of the specific features of the Leupold rimfire scopes that made me get that one instead of the Weaver 3-9x32 AO...that plus the weight and less money for the smaller Leupold...

If weight and $$$ were no problem I would definitely prefer the Leupold VX-2 3-9x33 EFR with fine duplex...

Common factor between the three was I really wanted the fine duplex...and really, really like...comparing to the other scope I have which you can see in the other thread low, lower, lowest...it has a normal duplex...

I can't speak to all lighting and background...as I am always out in unbearably bright sunshine and trying to focus on the smallest possible targets at 100-110 yards primarily...this is when the fine duplex really pays off the most for me...the closer and larger the target the less it matters...but you already knew that...

Here is my thinking on sights...people talk about being able to focus on the front post referring to iron sights...which I have infinitely more experience with...I personally disagree with that concept...with the exception being a blurry front post is both obscuring and distracting...for me the goal is to not look at the sights at all...and focus exclusively on the target...let the post or cross hairs find their way onto the target without trying to PUT them there...you don't have to focus on the cross hairs to know if they are on target or not...which means also that you can judge where the center of the cross hairs are even if you only aware of the wider duplex lines for plumb and level...you mind knows if they intersect where your eyes are focused...

Now to me it's a simple thing to understand...however, it is not easy to relax and let it work for you...if it was...we'd all be champion marksmen...with our eyes close...lol...

I am sorry I can't really answer your question and probably never will be able to...you will better off asking hunters looking to shoot critters in the brush between the eyes at dusk what they think...

I do like the scope a lot...like the zero...Love the fine duplex because it doesn't hide a small target at long range and is easier to NOT see when I am trying to focus on the target not the cross hairs..tracking and reset SEEM to be spot on to me...durability of course I wanted to pay a bit more for...and at this time is unknown to me really... made in USA is always a factor for me to consider...not saying I wouldn't buy an import...

One thing that is less important to me but certainly deserves a comment is I am experienced in manufacturing anodized and/or painted aluminum...the quality of the finish on the Leupold scope AND rings are both exceptional to say the least...One thing I can say absolutely is they pay a lot more for that process than some of their competitors and is shows...personally...I don't have to have the finest finish available so it's not something I really want to pay extra for...but it is definitely what you get...

As for brand loyalty I have none...except that if all other things are equal I'd pay a bit more for made in USA over an import...

No regrets whatsoever from me on this scope so far...

And thanks to everyone who gave me their opinions before I bought it...

Later,
ZG

OOOPs... one thing I forgot...I do go out at dusk and even after dark to test the bore sight a lot against a gray block fence at 100'...I have no problem seeing the cross hairs...after dark I have to use a flashlight to be able to see anything other than the laser dot...YMMV