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how to remove moly from barrel

This is a discussion on how to remove moly from barrel within the Maintenance forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; I accidentally picked up some moly coated hornady. 224 50gr vmax. Loaded and fired about 10rds later after doing some research on moly i decided ...


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Old January 19th, 2013, 06:44 AM   #1
 
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how to remove moly from barrel

I accidentally picked up some moly coated hornady. 224 50gr vmax. Loaded and fired about 10rds later after doing some research on moly i decided not to continue to shoot them. Now my barrel has moly coating that i cant seem to remove. I have used hoppes 9 wire brush and three dozen patches and bore snake. Doesn't seem to be getting any cleaner. Any suggestions? Also will be selling bullets if anyone is interest



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Old January 19th, 2013, 07:46 AM   #2
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ffljoe, I wouldn't worry about it. Moly is non-corrosive and will "shoot out" in short order with normal bullets.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 07:55 AM   #3
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It may be expensive, but you could shoot a few dozen rounds off, getting her warmed up pretty good. That might help.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 09:37 AM   #4
 
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I have a couple other size bullets to work up a load for. Maybe by the time im done with that it will be gone. I would really like to get a clean patch out of it. And i thought cleaning my muzzleloaders was bad
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Old January 19th, 2013, 09:53 AM   #5
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For stubborn bore deposits, I use the JB Non Embedding bore cleaner paste. Even on what appears to be a shiny clean bore, the JB paste on a clean patch pulls out stuff.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 10:56 AM   #6
 
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Iowegan had it spot on. Just have a good time shooting the moly our. Yes it will disappear after so many rounds have gone through the bore. Smithy.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 11:16 AM   #7
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For those rifle shooters not familiar with Moly ... it is a powdered friction reducing material that can be applied to bullets. It feel "greasy", much like powder graphite but it is non-corrosive.

OK, here's a short quiz about "Moly Coated Bullets" for our forum members:

1. How many rounds of Moly coated bullets does it take to "condition" a bore?
A. 1 round
B. 5 rounds
C. 10 rounds
D. 20 rounds

2. When a bore has been conditioned and you continue to shoot Moly coated bullets, what happens to the bore?
A. It gets tighter, better bullet fit.
B. It gets "slicker", less bullet friction.
C. The bore will remain the same.

3. Assuming a 223 Rem factory load with 55 gr bullets and a MV of 3240 fps, what happens to muzzle velocity when Moly bullets are fired in a conditioned barrel versus non-Moly coated bullets in a normal barrel?
A. MV increases by 100 fps with Moly bullets.
B. MV decreases by 100 fps with Moly bullets.
C. MV stays the same with both bullets.

4. When Moly coated bullets are fired, the rifles report is:
A. Not as loud.
B. Louder.
C. No change.

5. Assuming the same factory ammo as #3 above, what happens to long range accuracy?
A. Accuracy will improve at distances beyond 300 yards with Moly coated bullets.
B. Accuracy will drop off after 300 yards with Moly coated bullets.
C. Accuracy will not change after 300 yards with Moly coated bullets.

6. Again assuming the same factory ammo as #3 above, what happens to short range accuracy?
A. Accuracy will be worse at 100 yards with Moly coated bullets.
B. Accuracy will be better at 100 yards with Moly coated bullets.
C. Accuracy will not change at 100 yards.

7. What happens to a Moly coated bullet's ballistic coefficient (BC)?
A. BC will improve because the bullets are slicker.
B. BC will stay the same as non-Moly coated bullets.
C. BC will lower because the Moly coating changes the bullet's dynamics.

8. A brand new bore will break in faster with Moly bullets than with non-Moly bullets.
A. True
B. False





The answers to all the above questions is "B". Shooters miss most of these because it is counterintuitive.

Question 1. If you chronograph your loads, you will see velocity decrease with each shot until the bore is conditioned. This normally takes about 5 rounds ... more with a rough bore.

Question 2. The bore indeed gets "slicker" and presents less friction to the bullet. Most people get this one right.

Question 3. This is the question most people miss and it is the key to the other questions. When Moly coated bullets are used in a conditioned bore, it takes less chamber pressure for the bullet to engrave and start moving, which in turn pushes the bullet well down the bore before chamber pressure peaks. The bullet will exit the muzzle before all the powder burns up, which will reduce muzzle velocity by a notable amount. This is backwards of what you would think but can easily be proven with a chronograph. This phenomenon happens will all rifles when using Moly coated bullets, however velocity reduction won't be exactly the same for all calibers.

Question 4. Because not all the powder burns in the barrel with Moly coated bullets, the report will normally be louder with a bigger muzzle flash.

Question 5. Because muzzle velocity is reduced with Moly coated bullets, the bullet's spin rate is also reduced and will cause the bullet to lose stability down range. When using larger diameter bullets with higher BCs, this is not as noticeable and will take considerably more distance to show up.

Question 6. Because Moly coated bullets are leaving the muzzle at a lower velocity, the "yaw spiral" is smaller and will dissipate at a shorter distance. Typical 100 yard accuracy for the above 55 gr 223 Rem bullets is usually better, which is why many people think Moly coated bullets are better at all distances.

Question 7. Moly coating does not change the bullet's BC.

Question 8. A conventional bore (not chrome lined) will take about 20 rounds to break in and smooth the striation marks using regular ammo. Moly coated bullets will take several hundred rounds to do the same thing.

About 25 years ago, Moly coated bullets became the rage. Seems when shooters tried them at 100 yards, accuracy was usually better and because the bore was "slicker", shooters thought muzzle velocity would increase. When affordable chronographs became available, these "common sense" concepts were found to be the opposite. Some people still believe in Moly coated bullets .... they should buy a chronograph. I hope this dispels the gun myths about Moly coated bullets.

Last edited by Iowegan; January 19th, 2013 at 11:24 AM.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 12:12 PM   #8
 
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Ask and ye shall receive. Is that not correct Smithy?
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Old January 19th, 2013, 12:13 PM   #9
 
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Thank you for that post lowegan. When I bought my AR-10, Armalite recommended using Black Hills moly coated rounds for break-in, but I didn't buy into it and used standard.
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Old January 19th, 2013, 12:35 PM   #10
 
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Great Info , thanks!
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Old January 26th, 2013, 09:18 AM   #11
 
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All the above is true with no5 being the less likely to happen, velocity can be brought back up with more powder if the case allows, some even go over max with moly, But should cut back load once moly is not being used, Tests have proven that moly in a regular steel bore will rust, not so with stainless.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 06:21 AM   #12
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I really canít tell you much about moly coatings from a gun smith perspective but I can talk a little with respect to mechanics. As stated, moly coatings themselves are not corrosive but they are hygroscopic (absorb and retain moisture) so they wonít, in themselves, cause corrosion but they will collect moisture and concentrations of even the smallest amount of moisture on non-stainless steels (and many stainless alloys as well) can cause anything from micro-pitting to rust formation depending on how long the combination is left unused and the local moisture levels. I would think we donít want that to happen in our firearm barrels!

One last point from the world of mechanics is that is generally considered to be poor practice to compensate for decreased performance caused by one variable by altering other variables involved in the issue. To be more clear, increasing a powder load to compensate for the lubricity increase and velocity decrease due to the moly coating is not a good idea and to even think about going above maximum suggested loads is a dangerous thought to be sure. What we do in our own lives is our business but I would not suggest pushing limits in a public forum. We donít want those in the learning phase to develop bad habits and we definitely donít endorse anything that violates any safety standards.

The only way to safely compensate for the losses in velocity due to moly coatings is to stop using them and go back to your original loads. And the suggestion that the moly coatings will eventually be removed by using non coated bullets is not only true but actually the very best way to accomplish the removal. I know that by experience in conditioning metal to metal faying surfaces (surfaces in contact and/or in motion) in designs other than firearms and through experience with multiple lubrication products. Using harsh chemicals can remove the protective coatings we apply in our cleaning processes and stronger abrasion or even cleanings more than normal will cause undue and unnecessary wear on the barrel. Using non coated ammo is easier and a heck of a lot more fun IMHO.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 06:36 AM   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
For those rifle shooters not familiar with Moly ... it is a powdered friction reducing material that can be applied to bullets. It feel "greasy", much like powder graphite but it is non-corrosive.
- - - - Giant Snip - - - - I hope this dispels the gun myths about Moly coated bullets.
Iowegan, I had no real interest in Moly bullets. They weren't in my vocabulary.

But, I REALLY enjoyed reading this post. I found it very informative and very interesting. I love reading your stuff. Even when the subject is not in my sphere of interest I learn something.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 06:42 AM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BronxBoy View Post
I really canít tell you much about moly coatings from a gun smith perspective but I can talk a little with respect to mechanics. As stated, moly coatings themselves are not corrosive but they are hygroscopic - - - Giant Snip - - - Using non coated ammo is easier and a heck of a lot more fun IMHO.
BronxBoy, what I just stated above concerning Iowegan's post goes for this post too.

Good stuff, well written and very interesting.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 11:17 AM   #15
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Quiet 1, Thanks, I learned something too! Before moly, some shooters experimented with powdered graphite, which was found to be very corrosive. When Moly came out, it was supposed to work better than graphite and be non-corrosive. I guess I assumed Moly was a "fix" for corrosive effects, when it appears it wasn't.

tunered,
Quote:
velocity can be brought back up with more powder if the case allows, some even go over max with moly
That's exactly what many "moly users" did. When more powder was added to raise velocity to equal that of non-moly conditioned bores, downrange bullet performance was exactly the same as when Moly was not used at all. So ... there was absolutely no advantage using moly.

Again, a counterintuitive concept ... one would think increasing the powder charge by a grain or so would increase chamber pressure beyond limits in a moly conditioned bore. However the saving grace was ... because of the "slick" properties of moly, the bullet would travel farther down the bore before chamber pressure peaked. This increases the volume of the cavity and according to Boyle's Law, it would actually decrease chamber pressure. The net result of increasing the powder charge in a moly conditioned bore to equal the same MV as a non-conditioned bore will make chamber pressure virtually identical. It just goes to show you ... things are not always what they seem.

As for the OPs original question .... start by doing a normal bore cleaning then fire 5 rounds of non-moly coated ammo. This will negate the effects of moly but may still leave some microscopic moly particles in the bore. Prior to reading BronxBoy's post, I would have said that procedure would have been "good enough" but you may have to clean the bore again and fire another 5 rounds to get rid of the hygroscopic effect that I wasn't aware of.
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