Ruger Forum

STUBHAWK · October 30th, 2012, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkangel

Well. Stubhawk, I can tell you have never actually tried the "Snake oil". After having tried it for myself, and have seen how much reduced the friction is on my semi-auto's, as well as my bolt gun is with the frog, BEFORE it gets all warm and happy, I am 100% content and convinced that it is protecting my guns and lubricating as advertised. I have over 25 years of shooting experience, and know enough about firearms to know what is or isnt working. I am suprised that you have taken such a hard line, seens how so many seasoned gun owners/shooters have personally tried and swear by ANY product.

I'm not sure if you have ever endured a Canadian winter, but after having shot my first day with the frog on a cold day, approx -5 degrees C, and having vastly improved performance before, during, and after the weapons got all warm and happy, I would, WITHOUT RESERVATION, recomend this product. You speak of science. well fine sir, imperical data is as scientific as it gets, and after testing it, I know it works. it not only lubes the action better than the best petrolium oils I've tried, but the fouling that is VERY likely to do far more harm to your actions in the way of abrasive carbon residues ect are DRAMATICALLY reduced.

I am not saying these things to denounce what your saying, but I AM saying that regardless of your lack of faith in the science of others, the product works wonderfullly, and I myself am a beliver.

I invite you to give the product a try for yourself, before taking a hardline that it absolutely will not work.. when you have proven to yourself that you are correct, you simpy go back to what ever you used before. yes?

I freely admit that I have not tried it. I see no reason to try it. The principle of it remaining dry until heated just goes against the concept of lubrication. The idea is to keep friction down to where parts do not heat from friction. Y'all have fun with it, but I'm sticking to lubricants that the properties of which are scientifically documented (certified NLGI numbers, etc.). Statements by others are not science, no matter your years of shooting experience. Science is not, "I put it on my grand pappy's shotgun in -100 temperatures and it was the best thing ever." No matter how many personal statements are given, that does not equate to science. No lab has documented its lubrication properties. Lubricants are standardized according to two organizations, the Society of Automotive Engineers and the American Petroleum Institute, neither of which had tested Frog Lube the last time I researched it (please make me eat my words on this). Many people out there still think WD-40 is a lubricant, too, because you can buy it in every hardware store and it's been around a while. You want to talk about hardline, listen to people swear WD-40 is the best lubricant they've ever used. If Frog Lube stands the test of time, once the Navy-SEAL-newness wears off of it, then I will consider it. But I don't get all dopey-eyed because a Navy SEAL sneezed in a can and it miraculously created the best water-based lubricant that will not only protect your guns, but make you a Navy SEAL as well. While it is not as "enhancing" to status, I have tried to point out that Crisco and other, less expensive, also natural oils can provide the same results as Frog Lube claims. I have not said Crisco or Wesson oil or even bacon fat is better than Frog Lube, only that it seemingly does the same for less cost. While I do have many years, probably equivalent to your whole firearms career of 25 years, experience with cast iron crockery, I will not stipulate that that makes my observations of seasoning cast iron science and recommend it for firearms applications. Just like cast iron, though, before heating occurs, it is dry and the embedded oils are not providing any protection. Once heated, the seasoning oils liquify and provide protection to the iron, but not before, which is why you always pre-heat to get the protection. Doing the same with a firearm, or any mechanical object, just goes against the principles of lubrication.

funkymonkey1111 · October 30th, 2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STUBHAWK

I freely admit that I have not tried it. I see no reason to try it. The principle of it remaining dry until heated just goes against the concept of lubrication. The idea is to keep friction down to where parts do not heat from friction. Y'all have fun with it, but I'm sticking to lubricants that the properties of which are scientifically documented (certified NLGI numbers, etc.). Statements by others are not science, no matter your years of shooting experience. Science is not, "I put it on my grand pappy's shotgun in -100 temperatures and it was the best thing ever." No matter how many personal statements are given, that does not equate to science. No lab has documented its lubrication properties. Lubricants are standardized according to two organizations, the Society of Automotive Engineers and the American Petroleum Institute, neither of which had tested Frog Lube the last time I researched it (please make me eat my words on this). Many people out there still think WD-40 is a lubricant, too, because you can buy it in every hardware store and it's been around a while. You want to talk about hardline, listen to people swear WD-40 is the best lubricant they've ever used. If Frog Lube stands the test of time, once the Navy-SEAL-newness wears off of it, then I will consider it. But I don't get all dopey-eyed because a Navy SEAL sneezed in a can and it miraculously created the best water-based lubricant that will not only protect your guns, but make you a Navy SEAL as well. While it is not as "enhancing" to status, I have tried to point out that Crisco and other, less expensive, also natural oils can provide the same results as Frog Lube claims. I have not said Crisco or Wesson oil or even bacon fat is better than Frog Lube, only that it seemingly does the same for less cost. While I do have many years, probably equivalent to your whole firearms career of 25 years, experience with cast iron crockery, I will not stipulate that that makes my observations of seasoning cast iron science and recommend it for firearms applications. Just like cast iron, though, before heating occurs, it is dry and the embedded oils are not providing any protection. Once heated, the seasoning oils liquify and provide protection to the iron, but not before, which is why you always pre-heat to get the protection. Doing the same with a firearm, or any mechanical object, just goes against the principles of lubrication.

didn't take long for you to admit you have an agenda--seems that your agenda is as much against the SEAL as anything since you keep bringing it up--maybe you weren't as lauded during your "deployment" when you looked at dry-lubes and that causes you some level of distress.

What you've conveniently omitted from your baseless and hysterical rants about "snake oil" is how your frequently cited cast-iron pan example has any relevance here. I'm not cooking on the gun--i'm not introducing a signficantly cooler organic object to heat. no where does frog lube say a gun has to be at a particular temperature to work--it merely says the product's absorption in the metal is quicker when the metal is hot (at ambient sunlight temps).

Show us any proof that frog lube doesn't work until the metal is hot.

jrprich · October 30th, 2012, 11:57 AM

I don't understand why someone feels the need to make negative comments about a product that they have never tried just because someone else who has tried it posts up that they like the product. The OP wasn't selling FL, he just posted what he liked about it. Why does this stimulate a negative post.........I don't see the point. If you don't want to try it, don't, it is not a BFD either way.

STUBHAWK · October 30th, 2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkymonkey1111

didn't take long for you to admit you have an agenda--seems that your agenda is as much against the SEAL as anything since you keep bringing it up--maybe you weren't as lauded during your "deployment" when you looked at dry-lubes and that causes you some level of distress.

What you've conveniently omitted from your baseless and hysterical rants about "snake oil" is how your frequently cited cast-iron pan example has any relevance here. I'm not cooking on the gun--i'm not introducing a signficantly cooler organic object to heat. no where does frog lube say a gun has to be at a particular temperature to work--it merely says the product's absorption in the metal is quicker when the metal is hot (at ambient sunlight temps).

Show us any proof that frog lube doesn't work until the metal is hot.

You have outsmarted me and exposed my hidden agenda. I take issue with wannabes, and even companies, that tout something as proven because so-and-so secret squirrel commando says so. You may get tight in your skivvies sitting at the Starbucks talking about your lube and how it, and you by proximity, are hardcore because of the tie to Navy SEALs, but I find marketing this way to be laughable. If it makes you feel good to belittle my service, have at it. Bothers me none, as I'm sure you have accomplished far more than I in your military service career as a CIA ninja Delta Force Navy SEAL plank holder, etc., etc, and can prove it because your phone number is in the head at McP's. I have provided the base for my argument, even if you have refused to accept it. I cited cast iron pans, as the application of oil is similar to Frog Lube being applied to firearms surfaces. Tell me, how does Frog Lube become liquid, again, after being applied and wiped off? Answer from Frog Lube was that heat causes it to re-liquify. The burden of proof, if you care to continue, is on you to prove it works to me. I doubt it works, but will never convince you, nor do I take offense to others' decisions to use something different than I. I offered up an alternative perspective, with some documentation, for those on the fence, and have been berated personally and for my service because I don't drink the kool-aid and accept something without proof. There's always a few on every forum...

funkymonkey1111 · October 30th, 2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STUBHAWK

There's always a few on every forum...

Yes, and that would be you in this instance.

Where--in any of its literature, does frog lube state it only lubricates upon being hot?

ZommyGun · October 30th, 2012, 12:56 PM

Frog lube is awesome stuff...simple as that...get some...

STUBHAWK · October 30th, 2012, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkymonkey1111

Yes, and that would be you in this instance.

I was referring to internet tough guys, not independent thinkers.

funkymonkey1111 · October 30th, 2012, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STUBHAWK

I was referring to internet tough guys, not independent thinkers.

is that like when you went on a rant about my service, but instead used yours to bolster your feeble argument? Seems about right to me.

STUBHAWK · October 30th, 2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funkymonkey1111

is that like when you went on a rant about my service, but instead used yours to bolster your feeble argument? Seems about right to me.

It must not be, because I wasn't aware that you were in the service, nor did I share anything other than it was at a time while I was deployed when I was looking for better options than the lubricant I had on hand. If that threatens you, I apologize. May I recant my earlier statement and replace it with the following? "I was at the grocery store when I decided to look into alternative firearms lubrication because one of my best friends had recommended Frog Lube to me after he had been using it for a few months as a police officer in a coastal environment and had thought highly of it." How else can I tell you that I'm not implying you are a moron because you and I disagree on firearms lubricants?