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Slide Rail Lube?

This is a discussion on Slide Rail Lube? within the Maintenance forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; What kind of lubricants do you guys use in your semi-auto slide rails? I have a Browning BDM 9mm that seems to be sensitive to ...


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Old January 24th, 2010, 07:51 AM   #1
 
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Slide Rail Lube?

What kind of lubricants do you guys use in your semi-auto slide rails? I have a Browning BDM 9mm that seems to be sensitive to this issue. It worked nicely with Outer's gun oil but not Hoppe's. I'm wondering of if any one else had an issue like this and what they ended up using. Thanks!



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Old January 24th, 2010, 07:53 AM   #2
 
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A lot of guys say to use something thicker for slide rails, like tetra grease or tw25b or slide glide. I use miltec1. It seems to do the job, and it's very viscosity stable (i.e. it doesn't get thick in cold weather or thin out too much when hot).
In my experience, those readily available ones like Hoppe's and RemOil don't get the job done.
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Old January 24th, 2010, 03:45 PM   #3
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Been using motor oil for the past 25+years. To be more specific I've been using Mobil1 15W50 for the past 10 years or so. When I change the oil in my motorcycle I put an once or so in a little squeeze bottle and it last practucally forever. I know I'm going to catch a bunch of heat from all differrent directions about how motor oil is for engines and gun oil is for guns, yada yada yada. I have to so though that I have never ever ever seen any ill effects from it. I know to some that 25 years and several tens of thousands of rounds through a 10/22 is not proof or research enough. But hey if it makes you feel better by wasting money then buy the most expensive gun oil you can find and be done with it.
Now back to some guns being tempermential to some different oils, what I have found is that more times then not its not the type of oil but rather the amount. Most folks seem to put too much where it dont belong. Usually a dab on a q-tip to wipe down the rails and barrel is more then sufficent enough.
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Old January 24th, 2010, 03:55 PM   #4
 
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Slide Rail Lube

I use either Hoppe's Moly Paste or Brownell's Action Lube Plus. Seems to stay put, and a little goes a long way. I have been using the same 2 oz. jar for about five years.
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Old January 24th, 2010, 04:12 PM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMD View Post
Been using motor oil for the past 25+years. To be more specific I've been using Mobil1 15W50 for the past 10 years or so. When I change the oil in my motorcycle I put an once or so in a little squeeze bottle and it last practucally forever. I know I'm going to catch a bunch of heat from all differrent directions about how motor oil is for engines and gun oil is for guns, yada yada yada. I have to so though that I have never ever ever seen any ill effects from it. I know to some that 25 years and several tens of thousands of rounds through a 10/22 is not proof or research enough. But hey if it makes you feel better by wasting money then buy the most expensive gun oil you can find and be done with it.
Now back to some guns being tempermential to some different oils, what I have found is that more times then not its not the type of oil but rather the amount. Most folks seem to put too much where it dont belong. Usually a dab on a q-tip to wipe down the rails and barrel is more then sufficent enough.
Keep in mind that not all motor oils are the same, especially these days, especially across weights, not even compared to the same exact oil 5 years ago (some motor oils are now downright awful thanks to emissions goals). Also, motorcycle oil is not the same as regular motor oil, even if they are both Mobil 1 15w-50.
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Old January 24th, 2010, 05:52 PM   #6
 
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I have just started using this. Good enough for military application, good enough for me
MILITEC-1 - The ONLY all-purpose synthetic metal conditioner and gun oil
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Old January 24th, 2010, 06:15 PM   #7
 
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C.L.P. works just fine and it's the lube that Glockmeister recomends for all the lub points on Glocks. Just remember that to much of a good thing can be a bad thing, buy the squeeze bottle not the spray!
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Old January 25th, 2010, 09:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodbuster View Post
What kind of lubricants do you guys use in your semi-auto slide rails? I have a Browning BDM 9mm that seems to be sensitive to this issue. It worked nicely with Outer's gun oil but not Hoppe's. I'm wondering of if any one else had an issue like this and what they ended up using. Thanks!
I have never seen nor heard of this before as you describe it. I have seen issues with slides but, in each case I have experienced, the cause could be mostly associated with the lubrication application process and not the lube itself.

May I ask just what happens when you use the Hoppe’s that doesn’t happen when you use the Outers’ oil? Something doesn’t register right to me from a mechanical point of view as, in my experiences and my opinion, the two lubrications you mention are not that different in viscosity as to cause a problem like this. Are all other factors the same (ammo, temperature, etc.)?

I use CLP but I am not saying that this is the best. Just like TMD, the gentleman using the Mobil 1 oil, it works for me and I am happy with it. In my family, Hoppe’s is widely used as is Outers’ and other popular brands including motor oil. I don’t use grease on my guns at all and most of the gun owners in my family agree that, for their purposes, grease is not necessary. We mostly agree that less is better in lubrication and I swear by that. The only incidences I have seen of slide function sensitivity had to do with large amounts of lubricants and most of them were also associated with cold temperatures or poor cleaning habits (not meaning to imply that YOUR cleaning habits are poor).
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Old January 25th, 2010, 07:14 PM   #9
 
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I use this. Read what it was designed to do. This is not CLP but only LP. I feel I have no need for a cleaner in my gun oil. >>> Break-Free Lubricant and Preservative Gun Oil 4 oz Liquid - MidwayUSA
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Old January 25th, 2010, 08:09 PM   #10
 
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BronxBoy, here's the deal: when I lube with Hoppe's (I've tried lightly and heavily with the same result) the gun has a tendency to shoot left. It's not me, I've had a lot of other folks try it and they get the same result. Moving the sights doesn't work since it's very far left. About 5-6 inches at 7 yards. With Outer's it shot straight and they was somewhat liberally applied. I usually don't oil heavy, only going for the slight film.

In all cases, the gun always cycled properly with no issues of feeding or extracting. Ammo was the same and the range was the same too.
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Old January 26th, 2010, 07:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sodbuster View Post
BronxBoy, here's the deal: when I lube with Hoppe's (I've tried lightly and heavily with the same result) the gun has a tendency to shoot left. It's not me, I've had a lot of other folks try it and they get the same result. Moving the sights doesn't work since it's very far left. About 5-6 inches at 7 yards. With Outer's it shot straight and they was somewhat liberally applied. I usually don't oil heavy, only going for the slight film.

In all cases, the gun always cycled properly with no issues of feeding or extracting. Ammo was the same and the range was the same too.
You state... "In all cases, the gun always cycled properly..." but I find myself disagreeing if the cycle ended with a misalignment.

This is baffling, to say the very least. I am not a gun smith but I know mechanics and, if it were my gun, I would check the alignment and function plus search for obvious wear or damage on all parts associated with the slide/barrel or I would have it checked by a professional which might include Browning service and my reasons are simple. Lubrication on a gun slide is for wear prevention or retardation and normally not for use to create functionality. The gun should operate consistently and properly without lubrication or with very little. Even with heavy grease, if the gun were able to complete the discharge/reload cycle the accuracy should be the same or should show very little difference. Alignments are based on the features of the mechanical components, not the lubricants, and I find it hard to believe that a company like Browning would have a design issue that creates your problem without more widespread occurrences. Have you heard of this on any other firearms of your model type? The motions on the slides of guns that I know well are designed to be balanced about the axis of the barrel and geared on imposing as little side stress as possible on the moving components and fixed rails. Lubrication is just to limit wear for the actual contact areas.

Lubrication can mask underlying mechanical issues. The gun shouldn’t be that fussy about premium brand gun oils as they are all designed with the same purpose in mind. Folks use so many various items to lubricate their guns and most swear by what they use. I use CLP but I have used Hoppe’s and Rem Oil on my 1911 and have had no discernable differences that seem any worse than what I can produce based on skills. Something needs to be hanging up or dragging to cause your barrel/slide alignment to shift and, if I read you correctly, it appears that the shift is consistent in that it is either off in one direction or on.

I don't think I would expect the issue you are having if you were using some heavy grease or high viscosity oil. I can’t say I am all that familiar with outers but I know several folks who swear by it and none complain of accuracy. IMHO, you would be better off asking the forum if anyone has a firearm that has the same issues as yours does; does anyone see any differences in accuracy when using different lubricants or something like that.

It would be so easy to say to not use the Hoppe’s and just use the Outers since it works but I wouldn’t go that route until I was confident that there were no mechanical issues. Trying different brands might result in several that work and several that don’t but having a wider choice of usable lubricants won’t do you right if the gun has issues. If the gun does have issues, eventually something is going to fail.
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Old January 26th, 2010, 07:28 AM   #12
 
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I use Weapon Shield on my LCP and it works great. Google Weapon Shield and you can check it out. I contacted them about getting a sampler oiler pen and they sent both my brother and myself one. Check them out and ask for a sample cause ya can't beat FREE
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Old January 26th, 2010, 09:31 AM   #13
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I've been following this thread and biting my lip ... so, I might as well throw my .02 worth in too. First off, guns are not car engines or axle bearings. There isn't a single part in a pistol that has more than a few pounds of load bearing surface, unlike an engine or axle bearing where load bearing surfaces are rated in thousands of pounds under continuous motion. Pistols do have some unique properties that you don't see in engines or axle bearings and that is high carbon powder residue.

Let start at the beginning .... all semi-auto pistols (except Desert Eagles) use blow back or delayed blow back actions. This means the cartridge develops enough thrust to push the slide or bolt back to cycle the action. As such, some of the powder residue is blown back into the action, slide rails, and other internal parts of the gun. Powder residue is mostly made up of very abrasive carbon particles ... not much different that the abrasive compound on fine sandpaper. So what really happens is ... oil and grease will also be blown into internal parts, attract carbon particles, and form an abrasive sludge ... much like a lapping compound. This will wear a gun much faster than no oil at all.

After being in the gunsmith business for over 30 years and seeing a very large "sample rate", most of the guns that came in my shop with cycling or wear issues were directly related to over lubrication. For some widely spread but unknown reason, people think they need to hose their guns down with oil and grease. This is about the worst thing you can do.

When oil is exposed to air, it will "dry out" leaving a gummy mess. Grease will cake up and turn solid with time. Both can actually impede parts movement rather than making them run smoother, especially in cold temperatures. Oil and grease are not a "fix" for other issues. If your gun doesn't cycle properly without oil, there's something else going on that is the true source of the problem.

My suggestions: First, forget grease all together. It has no place in a respectable gun of any kind. Use oil designed for guns and use it very sparingly. The best way is to field strip your gun, clean it thoroughly, then wipe down each part with an oily rag and wipe off any excess until you have a fine film. Anything more than that is going to do more harm than good. The same goes for slide rails ... just a small drop of oil on both the frame and slide surfaces then wipe off the excess until there is a fine film. A light film of oil is good for rust prevention, both on inside and outside surfaces.

If you want proof .... try the above method, fire a hundred rounds, and inspect your gun. You will see very little accumulated powder residue. Try the same test with wet oil or grease and inspect after 100 rounds and you will see a grimy sludge on your slide rails and internal parts.

Further proof .... I have a Colt Series 70 Govt Mod (1911) that I used for hard ball matches. It has over 50,000 rounds of hard ball through it and is on the second barrel. The slide-to-frame fit and the internal parts are tight as a mouse's ear ... virtually no sign of wear and it still functions perfect with match grade accuracy. My old MK I Ruger had over 100,000 rounds through it and was still very tight and accurate when I sold it. Both gun were run virtually "dry" as are all my other guns. In comparison ... I had the same types of oily guns come in the shop with low round counts and excessive wear such as 1911s with slides that would do the floppy chicken after a mere 5,000 rounds.

As for Sodbuster's problem .... I just can't imagine a different type of oil making a difference in accuracy but if this is really the case, you have something defective in your gun.

Just my opinion ... yours may be different.
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Old January 26th, 2010, 01:40 PM   #14
 
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Thanks for the advice, guys. I think I'll have to take it to a smith to check it out.
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Old January 26th, 2010, 03:42 PM   #15
 
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I have several Kimbers and they recommend FP-10, and in fact, include a small tube of it. I have been using the FP-10 for years, as IOWEGAN said, lightly. Works quite well.
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