Suggestions for a gun safe for the house.

JKMorris · 01-26-2009, 04:36 PM

I don't know if this is the right place to ask this,
Mods please move if it is not.

I am looking to purchase a gun safe for the house and am looking to find good companies I can rely on for quality equipment as well as support if anything should go wrong, (i.e can't open, God forbid, a fire, attempted theft ) etc.

Any personal suggestions and or information would be welcome,

Thanks,
JKM

Iowegan · 01-27-2009, 06:42 AM

JKMorris, Here's an old post on the same subject: http://www.rugerforum.net/showthread.php?t=8535
I finally got my Zanotti and am very happy with it.

JKMorris · 01-27-2009, 08:43 AM

Thanks for the reply.

I did see that thread, I had no idea that so many safes (and other things as well) were made in China.
I will for sure be looking to buy American Made.

Maybe I should be more specific with my questions.
Things like: are mechanical locks better than the electronic? I have this thought that after a fire, the plastic electronic lock is all melted......now what??
I'm thinking after a fire, the mechanical dial of a combination lock will still work.

How big? I know this is an individual answer, but should I make room to store ammo? Should I store it in the safe? In the event of a fire, does it usually go off? It seems like it would cause more trauma to the guns than the fire. If it is not in the safe, is it a problem for the firemen?

How do others handle these things.

Thanks again to all of you that help here on this forum. Lots of very helpful and knowledgeable people here.

JKM

Iowegan · 01-27-2009, 12:35 PM

JKMorris, There a lot of things to consider when you buy a safe. A lot depends on where you plan to set it .... like floor loading, size, weight, etc. If you plan to locate the safe where steps are involved, weight and size are a huge consideration. Fire ratings are based on exposure time and temperature. The very best fire rated safe would not survive a house fire if the house burned down. Also, the better fire rated safes have cement layers between the outside metal and the interior. This adds a huge amount of weight and reduces the internal size. Most highly rated fire safes have a thin outside metal layer that is not as secure as heavy gage steel. Check with your home owner's insurance. My insurance has a limit for gun coverage of only $500 so I had to buy a "rider policy" for my guns. After I got the safe, I checked with the insurance company and found there was no limit if you stored your guns in a safe. That saved me over $200/year.

Your primary function for a gun safe is for theft protection. If you buy a decent safe that is heavy enough or secured to the floor, chances are a crook will take one look at it and move on. Yes, they could get in with a cutting torch but that would be unlikely.

There are several "classes" of locks. All electronic and some mechanical locks are designed to "fail secure" in a fire. That means a locksmith has to drill the safe to get it open. The better mechanical locks are designed to "fail open", meaning all you have to do is run the dial to zero and operate the handle to open them after a fire. You would have to replace the lock after a fire in either case but with the "fail open" lock, the container itself would still be OK.

I got the standard "3-position spin dial" mechanical lock. It has 1,000,000 possible combinations and can be set to any number you desire. There are three numbers in the combination, each one anywhere from 0 to 99. After dialing the sequence (left, right, left) you then turn the dial right a little past zero to open. I have mine set on a number that is easy to remember but not easy for someone to guess.

I had a bad experience with my old safe. It was a very well made Browning safe but when I moved, the moving company wanted more money to pick up, move, and deliver than the safe cost me. Besides, it would have taken quite an expensive effort to get it out of my basement. My new Zanotti safe is just as secure as my old one (better quality) and it can be disassembled into 6 pieces. Once assembled, the only way to take it apart is to unlock it. I placed my safe in basement where it would take a crane to get it out and even then, walls would have to be removed. Once assembled, the safe is larger than the staircase and doors. If I ever move again or decide to install the safe up stairs, I can disassemble it, move it one piece at a time and reassemble.

Most safes have different internal configurations available. I have mine configured for 16 long guns and the rest is shelves for handguns, accessories and ammo. Buy a safe that is larger than your immediate needs because your gun collection will likely grow, plus you can store other valuables in it too. Some people do not recommend storing ammo in the same safe as guns but I figure if the internal temperature gets hot enough to cook off ammo, it's also hot enough to ruin the guns, even without ammo.

MAC702 · 01-27-2009, 01:43 PM

Use a fake large steel air duct in the attic.

JKMorris · 01-29-2009, 11:47 AM

Thanks Iowegan,

That is just the answer I was looking for.

My thoughts on the locking mechanisms is on the right road. I did not know all of them would be likely to fail in the face of a fire. Some open, some closed. Great info, thanks again.

My concern with the electronic locks are this:
I went to go shopping for safes, asked the assistant to open one with an electronic lock so I could see inside. After several attempts, noted the "battery must be dead". After several batteries from other safes, and a couple of brand new batteries, it was said "that's funny, it was just working" !! They never got it working the 1/2 hour or so I was looking at other safes.

Wow, if they can go from fine to not so fine in a matter of moments, I would not like to be frustrated trying to get into one because of electronic failure. (which seems much more likely than mechanical failure)

It may take longer to get into, but I figure my security gun won't be in that safe anyway. It will be much more accessible.

The safe will be in a room with concrete slab, and just one very wide 5 inch stair (made of concrete also).

I'll check with my insurance company also. Thanks for the tip.

I currently have one of those small thin metal, no insulation, safes. It has been doing a great job, but I am out growing it. I was thinking of keeping that in the barn with the ammo. If that burns, and ammo goes off, less likely to hurt a person. Only the animals. BUT, as you say, any fire that is hot enough to fire off ammo, would most likely hurt the guns as much as the ammo would.

I found a couple that I really liked. My wife looked at them and said "that's awful big, we don't have that many guns."
I answered her......"YET"

JKM

PS.

MAC702
could you elaborate more on what you use. I cannot envision it by your description, but I am curious.
Thanks
JKM

beachbum · 02-09-2009, 08:49 AM

I would suggest that you get a safe that's at least twice the size that you think you'll need, and possibly up to three times as large. You will fill it quickly!

I always say buy the biggest and heaviest safe that you can afford, and definitely bolt it down, no matter how heavy it is. Definitely buy one made in the US. There are many options. Skip those sold in Home Depot, Costco, etc.

I prefer mechanical locks over digital locks. You won't be locking your home defense gun in there, so speed really doesn't matter. I much prefer reliability over speed. I know it will work each and every time I need it to.

Good luck with your shopping.

WY_DaveH · 02-24-2009, 09:04 PM

Senty Safe from Walmart $398 14 guns, electronic (remove the buttons to use key). Daily into the safe without a single hitch.

freakdawg007 · 02-26-2009, 08:21 AM

Things to consider....

I've read in the news were people actually stole the entire safe from the house. They would open it later.
They dont hold as many guns as they advertise.
Forget about storing ammo in a safe unless its the walk in kind. Eventually, you will get the ammo bug and start saving 1000's of rounds.
I keep my security gun locked and loaded in a differnet safe than my others. Secure enough that my kids cannot get the gun but quick enough for me or my wife to access .

freakdawg007 · 02-26-2009, 08:23 AM

opps sorry my quick access safe is one of those sentry key lock fireproof boxes that you can get at walmart.

GREGG · 02-28-2009, 11:30 AM

I have a safe in my garage, it weights 1400 pounds empty and it has No wheels. A safe in the basement it's 600 pounds (took 6 guys to bring it down the steps) and another in my office. All have loaded firearms that are ready for use. All my kids are grow up and gone. Alarm system is armed so am I........They may get in but if I'm around, they get carried out. D.O.A. only.

roller · 02-28-2009, 07:53 PM

Just to chime in on this: I bought a Zanotti about five years ago. Can't think of my next best move!
In the very near future I'm going to get another, smaller one. This one will go in a second floor closet. The closet door is smaller than any part of the safe. That's one big thing I like about the Zanotti. Being modular, you can put it together in a place it's impossible to get out of, short of tearing the house apart. Of course, that can be done, but how long does a thief want to hang around?
And I couldn't agree more with the others. You can NOT buy a safe too big.

Roller

BoBDoG2o02 · 12-22-2009, 11:46 AM

I do alarm work and had the pleasure of alarming a VAULT in somones Basement.

They used an old bank vault door. They claimed the door alone weighed in at 1900 Lbs. It was a steel cube made of 3/4" steel plate. After that they built a concrete block wall around the whole mess and fitted the steel box to the Vault Door. Environmental controls and all. VERY COOL.

Bike Effects · 12-25-2009, 11:53 AM

A great write up on making a safe decision, no pun intended.

Gun Safe Buyers' Guide

BuckeyeBlast · 12-25-2009, 12:38 PM

This is what I got : Gun Safes Sale - Gun Safes Free Shipping - Steelwater and I highly reccommend it!

The Rifleman · 12-25-2009, 07:13 PM

I guess I will chime in here too. No safe is completely safe. If a thief wants in he/she will get in. I live in the country and last year a fella I know that lives a couple of miles from me on a dirt road came home early from work to find a vehicle he didn't know parked next to his house, his front door open and his Acetylene torch pulled to the door. He called the Sheriff then drew his pistol from his truck and started to approach his house when a man that was hiding very close by bolted and jumped on my neighbors four wheeler and took off. My neighbor took off after him chasing him from county road to county road. A deputy caught him. The four wheeler was severely damaged. When the Sheriff went to the house to check the crime scene they found one other man hiding and arrested him. They were attempting to use my neighbors own torch to cut into his safe, but his untimely (from their perspective) arrival thwarted their attempt. My neighbor had a matching engraved consecutive serial numbered Vaqueros in a display case that was missing and it was determined that the thief on the four wheeler threw them before he was caught. To this day they have not been found. After this I went out and bought a safe because (1) it is better than hiding them in the closet and (2) not every thief will take this much effort at breaking into a safe. I told this story though as a warning that just because you have a safe and it weighs xxxx lbs. and has x/x thick walls it is always vulnerable someway somehow some one could get in.

01-26-2009, 04:36 PM	#1
JKMorris Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 17	Suggestions for a gun safe for the house. I don't know if this is the right place to ask this, Mods please move if it is not. I am looking to purchase a gun safe for the house and am looking to find good companies I can rely on for quality equipment as well as support if anything should go wrong, (i.e can't open, God forbid, a fire, attempted theft ) etc. Any personal suggestions and or information would be welcome, Thanks, JKM

02-28-2009, 11:30 AM	#11
GREGG Joined: Jan 2009 From: Omaha, Ne. Posts: 108	I have 3 safes in 3 places ......... I have a safe in my garage, it weights 1400 pounds empty and it has No wheels. A safe in the basement it's 600 pounds (took 6 guys to bring it down the steps) and another in my office. All have loaded firearms that are ready for use. All my kids are grow up and gone. Alarm system is armed so am I........They may get in but if I'm around, they get carried out. D.O.A. only.

02-28-2009, 07:53 PM	#12
roller Joined: Feb 2009 From: Northern Ohio Posts: 15	Gun Safe in the House Just to chime in on this: I bought a Zanotti about five years ago. Can't think of my next best move! In the very near future I'm going to get another, smaller one. This one will go in a second floor closet. The closet door is smaller than any part of the safe. That's one big thing I like about the Zanotti. Being modular, you can put it together in a place it's impossible to get out of, short of tearing the house apart. Of course, that can be done, but how long does a thief want to hang around? And I couldn't agree more with the others. You can NOT buy a safe too big. Roller

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01-27-2009, 06:42 AM	#2
Iowegan Retired Gunsmith Joined: Aug 2006 From: Blair, NE Posts: 4,501	JKMorris, Here's an old post on the same subject: http://www.rugerforum.net/showthread.php?t=8535 I finally got my Zanotti and am very happy with it.

01-27-2009, 08:43 AM	#3
JKMorris Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 17	Thanks for the reply. I did see that thread, I had no idea that so many safes (and other things as well) were made in China. I will for sure be looking to buy American Made. Maybe I should be more specific with my questions. Things like: are mechanical locks better than the electronic? I have this thought that after a fire, the plastic electronic lock is all melted......now what?? I'm thinking after a fire, the mechanical dial of a combination lock will still work. How big? I know this is an individual answer, but should I make room to store ammo? Should I store it in the safe? In the event of a fire, does it usually go off? It seems like it would cause more trauma to the guns than the fire. If it is not in the safe, is it a problem for the firemen? How do others handle these things. Thanks again to all of you that help here on this forum. Lots of very helpful and knowledgeable people here. JKM

01-27-2009, 12:35 PM	#4
Iowegan Retired Gunsmith Joined: Aug 2006 From: Blair, NE Posts: 4,501	JKMorris, There a lot of things to consider when you buy a safe. A lot depends on where you plan to set it .... like floor loading, size, weight, etc. If you plan to locate the safe where steps are involved, weight and size are a huge consideration. Fire ratings are based on exposure time and temperature. The very best fire rated safe would not survive a house fire if the house burned down. Also, the better fire rated safes have cement layers between the outside metal and the interior. This adds a huge amount of weight and reduces the internal size. Most highly rated fire safes have a thin outside metal layer that is not as secure as heavy gage steel. Check with your home owner's insurance. My insurance has a limit for gun coverage of only $500 so I had to buy a "rider policy" for my guns. After I got the safe, I checked with the insurance company and found there was no limit if you stored your guns in a safe. That saved me over $200/year. Your primary function for a gun safe is for theft protection. If you buy a decent safe that is heavy enough or secured to the floor, chances are a crook will take one look at it and move on. Yes, they could get in with a cutting torch but that would be unlikely. There are several "classes" of locks. All electronic and some mechanical locks are designed to "fail secure" in a fire. That means a locksmith has to drill the safe to get it open. The better mechanical locks are designed to "fail open", meaning all you have to do is run the dial to zero and operate the handle to open them after a fire. You would have to replace the lock after a fire in either case but with the "fail open" lock, the container itself would still be OK. I got the standard "3-position spin dial" mechanical lock. It has 1,000,000 possible combinations and can be set to any number you desire. There are three numbers in the combination, each one anywhere from 0 to 99. After dialing the sequence (left, right, left) you then turn the dial right a little past zero to open. I have mine set on a number that is easy to remember but not easy for someone to guess. I had a bad experience with my old safe. It was a very well made Browning safe but when I moved, the moving company wanted more money to pick up, move, and deliver than the safe cost me. Besides, it would have taken quite an expensive effort to get it out of my basement. My new Zanotti safe is just as secure as my old one (better quality) and it can be disassembled into 6 pieces. Once assembled, the only way to take it apart is to unlock it. I placed my safe in basement where it would take a crane to get it out and even then, walls would have to be removed. Once assembled, the safe is larger than the staircase and doors. If I ever move again or decide to install the safe up stairs, I can disassemble it, move it one piece at a time and reassemble. Most safes have different internal configurations available. I have mine configured for 16 long guns and the rest is shelves for handguns, accessories and ammo. Buy a safe that is larger than your immediate needs because your gun collection will likely grow, plus you can store other valuables in it too. Some people do not recommend storing ammo in the same safe as guns but I figure if the internal temperature gets hot enough to cook off ammo, it's also hot enough to ruin the guns, even without ammo.

01-27-2009, 01:43 PM	#5
MAC702 Joined: Oct 2008 From: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 134	Use a fake large steel air duct in the attic.

01-29-2009, 11:47 AM	#6
JKMorris Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 17	Thanks Iowegan, That is just the answer I was looking for. My thoughts on the locking mechanisms is on the right road. I did not know all of them would be likely to fail in the face of a fire. Some open, some closed. Great info, thanks again. My concern with the electronic locks are this: I went to go shopping for safes, asked the assistant to open one with an electronic lock so I could see inside. After several attempts, noted the "battery must be dead". After several batteries from other safes, and a couple of brand new batteries, it was said "that's funny, it was just working" !! They never got it working the 1/2 hour or so I was looking at other safes. Wow, if they can go from fine to not so fine in a matter of moments, I would not like to be frustrated trying to get into one because of electronic failure. (which seems much more likely than mechanical failure) It may take longer to get into, but I figure my security gun won't be in that safe anyway. It will be much more accessible. The safe will be in a room with concrete slab, and just one very wide 5 inch stair (made of concrete also). I'll check with my insurance company also. Thanks for the tip. I currently have one of those small thin metal, no insulation, safes. It has been doing a great job, but I am out growing it. I was thinking of keeping that in the barn with the ammo. If that burns, and ammo goes off, less likely to hurt a person. Only the animals. BUT, as you say, any fire that is hot enough to fire off ammo, would most likely hurt the guns as much as the ammo would. I found a couple that I really liked. My wife looked at them and said "that's awful big, we don't have that many guns." I answered her......"YET" JKM PS. MAC702 could you elaborate more on what you use. I cannot envision it by your description, but I am curious. Thanks JKM

02-09-2009, 08:49 AM	#7
beachbum Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 2	I would suggest that you get a safe that's at least twice the size that you think you'll need, and possibly up to three times as large. You will fill it quickly! I always say buy the biggest and heaviest safe that you can afford, and definitely bolt it down, no matter how heavy it is. Definitely buy one made in the US. There are many options. Skip those sold in Home Depot, Costco, etc. I prefer mechanical locks over digital locks. You won't be locking your home defense gun in there, so speed really doesn't matter. I much prefer reliability over speed. I know it will work each and every time I need it to. Good luck with your shopping.

02-24-2009, 09:04 PM	#8
WY_DaveH Joined: Feb 2009 From: Cheyenne, WY Posts: 50	Senty Safe from Walmart $398 14 guns, electronic (remove the buttons to use key). Daily into the safe without a single hitch.

02-26-2009, 08:21 AM	#9
freakdawg007 Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 17	Things to consider.... I've read in the news were people actually stole the entire safe from the house. They would open it later. They dont hold as many guns as they advertise. Forget about storing ammo in a safe unless its the walk in kind. Eventually, you will get the ammo bug and start saving 1000's of rounds. I keep my security gun locked and loaded in a differnet safe than my others. Secure enough that my kids cannot get the gun but quick enough for me or my wife to access .

02-26-2009, 08:23 AM	#10
freakdawg007 Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 17	opps sorry my quick access safe is one of those sentry key lock fireproof boxes that you can get at walmart.

12-22-2009, 11:46 AM	#13
BoBDoG2o02 Joined: Dec 2009 From: Oxford, PA Posts: 278	I do alarm work and had the pleasure of alarming a VAULT in somones Basement. They used an old bank vault door. They claimed the door alone weighed in at 1900 Lbs. It was a steel cube made of 3/4" steel plate. After that they built a concrete block wall around the whole mess and fitted the steel box to the Vault Door. Environmental controls and all. VERY COOL.

12-25-2009, 11:53 AM	#14
Bike Effects Joined: Mar 2009 From: Napa, CA USA Posts: 135	A great write up on making a safe decision, no pun intended. Gun Safe Buyers' Guide

12-25-2009, 12:38 PM	#15
BuckeyeBlast Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 912	This is what I got : Gun Safes Sale - Gun Safes Free Shipping - Steelwater and I highly reccommend it!

12-25-2009, 07:13 PM	#16
The Rifleman Joined: Feb 2009 From: The hills of Missouri Posts: 632	I guess I will chime in here too. No safe is completely safe. If a thief wants in he/she will get in. I live in the country and last year a fella I know that lives a couple of miles from me on a dirt road came home early from work to find a vehicle he didn't know parked next to his house, his front door open and his Acetylene torch pulled to the door. He called the Sheriff then drew his pistol from his truck and started to approach his house when a man that was hiding very close by bolted and jumped on my neighbors four wheeler and took off. My neighbor took off after him chasing him from county road to county road. A deputy caught him. The four wheeler was severely damaged. When the Sheriff went to the house to check the crime scene they found one other man hiding and arrested him. They were attempting to use my neighbors own torch to cut into his safe, but his untimely (from their perspective) arrival thwarted their attempt. My neighbor had a matching engraved consecutive serial numbered Vaqueros in a display case that was missing and it was determined that the thief on the four wheeler threw them before he was caught. To this day they have not been found. After this I went out and bought a safe because (1) it is better than hiding them in the closet and (2) not every thief will take this much effort at breaking into a safe. I told this story though as a warning that just because you have a safe and it weighs xxxx lbs. and has x/x thick walls it is always vulnerable someway somehow some one could get in.