f> Deer hunting with buckshot - Page 2 - Ruger Forum

Ruger Forum

Deer hunting with buckshot

This is a discussion on Deer hunting with buckshot within the Hunting forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; I'm not entirely sure I would so quickly believe those "stories" you've heard. I've more than heard stories I've seen pictures and heard accounts from ...


Go Back   Ruger Forum > Firearm Forum > Hunting

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes

Old November 29th, 2013, 09:09 PM   #16
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 568
JD0x0 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
I'm not entirely sure I would so quickly believe those "stories" you've heard.
I've more than heard stories I've seen pictures and heard accounts from the people who were shot. One was a man who tried to commit suicide, and put a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger while laying in his bed. Another was a Repoman who was greeted with a shotgun because the man who's vehicle was being repossessed wasn't too happy about his truck being taken. Of course shotguns can kill and they're not toys, but they're not always the most reliable, IMO. Sometimes bones can stop the pellets. The sectional density of one 00 buck lead pellet is around .070 (worse if you're using steel or something with less mass than lead)
compare that to a 40 grain .22LR projectile which is around .114
or even a 20 grain .172 projectile with an SD of .097
or a 150 grain .308 projectile with a SD of .226
Generally a SD of .09-.2 is acceptable for CXP1 game. CXP1 class game is composed of small game, varmints, and small predators that weigh less than 50 pounds.
CXP2 game generally needs a sectional density of about .21 to .24
CXP2 class game are generally light framed animals with relatively thin skin and light muscles and bones. They typically range from about 51 pounds to perhaps 300 pounds. This is where deer and humans would generally fall.

So even a 00 Buckshot pellet is on the low side of CXP1. Again I am not saying it isn't capable of killing game or humans, I am saying it is a poor penetrator, of hard materials, like thick bone. To me this makes it a fairly unreliable projectile. It's safety is in it's numbers, but if all those numbers cant penetrate deeply enough to reach vital organs, it's just going to create many shallow wounds. It may be ugly, and it may bleed a lot but it doesn't guarantee a kill, let alone an ethical one.

Just my $.02



JD0x0 is offline  
Advertisements
Old November 29th, 2013, 09:25 PM   #17
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mountain West
Posts: 1,755
BassMan is on a distinguished road
I have never hunted deer with buck shot or what some of my southern friends call "blue whistlers".

But as I went forward in training/shooting I have taken the FBI shotgun course. Lots of shooting, can't remember how many rounds but it was plenty, probably 100 rounds of 12 gauge 00 buck, 25 rounds of bird shot (7 1/2's for small flying felons?), and about 25 of 1 oz. slugs.

If you can remember FBI agents armed with 12 gauge pump guns and buck shot and some .38 Special revolvers took on a pair of bad guys who had at least one Ruger .223 - the outcome was a disaster for the FBI - I cannot remember the casualties but it was bad. It appeared that the buck shot loads were mostly ineffective at probably as little as 25 yds. Thus the new training with slugs.

As I remember at any range beyond 25 yds the buck shot was inadequate with big gaps in the target but the slugs were a real threat out to 100 yds. With my 870 I was able to put big .60 caliber or so holes in a man target at 100 and that was with no rear sights.

I realize that deer and humans are not the same but if I had to shoot something with buck shot I would want to do it some 21 feet away.

I believe sports in Africa shoot 0 buck at small charging cats that are only feet away.
BassMan is offline  
Old November 30th, 2013, 12:12 AM   #18
 
Dozer02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: S.Meriden Connecticut
Posts: 998
Dozer02 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD0x0 View Post
I've more than heard stories I've seen pictures and heard accounts from the people who were shot. One was a man who tried to commit suicide, and put a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger while laying in his bed. Another was a Repoman who was greeted with a shotgun because the man who's vehicle was being repossessed wasn't too happy about his truck being taken. Of course shotguns can kill and they're not toys, but they're not always the most reliable, IMO. Sometimes bones can stop the pellets. The sectional density of one 00 buck lead pellet is around .070 (worse if you're using steel or something with less mass than lead)
compare that to a 40 grain .22LR projectile which is around .114
or even a 20 grain .172 projectile with an SD of .097
or a 150 grain .308 projectile with a SD of .226
Generally a SD of .09-.2 is acceptable for CXP1 game. CXP1 class game is composed of small game, varmints, and small predators that weigh less than 50 pounds.
CXP2 game generally needs a sectional density of about .21 to .24
CXP2 class game are generally light framed animals with relatively thin skin and light muscles and bones. They typically range from about 51 pounds to perhaps 300 pounds. This is where deer and humans would generally fall.

So even a 00 Buckshot pellet is on the low side of CXP1. Again I am not saying it isn't capable of killing game or humans, I am saying it is a poor penetrator, of hard materials, like thick bone. To me this makes it a fairly unreliable projectile. It's safety is in it's numbers, but if all those numbers cant penetrate deeply enough to reach vital organs, it's just going to create many shallow wounds. It may be ugly, and it may bleed a lot but it doesn't guarantee a kill, let alone an ethical one.

Just my $.02
I do not argue that there were documented cases of people surviving shotgun wounds, in the cases you mentioned, the angle at which the shot was placed, may well have put the "shot" at a disadvantage. My point was that a straight center placed shot of 00 buck point blank or from up close, say 10 feet or less, (about what one would encounter in a home intrusion or invasion type scenario) would not give the shot much room for expansion (depending on barrel length, of course) so most, if not all of the shot would impact the intended target. In the case of facial or head shots, the face would be pushed out through the rear of the skull (inside out) as the many photo's in the textbook I was referring to, clearly illustrate. 00 buckshot does indeed spread out and lose potency the farther it travels, and it does so much faster than a single more dense projectile like a rifle round or a deer slug, that, I will not argue either, which is why I would not, nor have I, ever used it for hunting of any kind. Likewise, I wouldn't want buckshot if I were in an outdoor "fire fight" situation such as the agents you mentioned, I remember that well, that was obviously poor planning on their part.
Dozer02 is offline  
 
Old November 30th, 2013, 02:55 AM   #19
The Fresh Prince
 
Neon Horse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Moonshine, TN
Posts: 19,358
Neon Horse is a splendid one to beholdNeon Horse is a splendid one to beholdNeon Horse is a splendid one to beholdNeon Horse is a splendid one to beholdNeon Horse is a splendid one to beholdNeon Horse is a splendid one to beholdNeon Horse is a splendid one to behold
Great discussion topic and experiences! I can't use it, but have always been curious about its ability to shot buck.

I've always just swapped barrels on the 500 and loaded some sabots in the tube. Rifles are now open to certain counties around me, but I stick with the sabots in a pump for the most part.
Neon Horse is offline  
Old November 30th, 2013, 05:58 AM   #20
 
Tater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,044
Tater will become famous soon enoughTater will become famous soon enough
Now, I've never hunted with 00 or 000 buckshot, but I think I would.

I would, however, keep my shots at bow hunting distances.
Tater is offline  
Old November 30th, 2013, 06:09 AM   #21
 
trigger creep's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Formerly PA, now NC
Posts: 7,601
trigger creep is a jewel in the roughtrigger creep is a jewel in the roughtrigger creep is a jewel in the roughtrigger creep is a jewel in the rough
I wouldn't use buckshot......
trigger creep is offline  
Old December 3rd, 2013, 11:17 AM   #22
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 69
Tenn Walker is on a distinguished road
Like Gotlabs, I grew up dog hunting in South Carolina and killed my first few deer with buckshot. All of the deer that I shot (using 00 buckshot) went down in short order with both 16 gauge and 12 gauge.

I think that there is more to it than just saying "Yes, it works" or "No, it doesn't".

Let me explain. I grew up hunting. When I say that, I mean I have pictures of my dad holding me while deer hunting when I was four - he killed a spike that morning. I remember carrying my cap gun to the dove field so that I could "help" dad out. Once old enough to deer hunt, my dad made me go with him for three years without a gun and just stand with him. He would not take a questionable shot and that just became ingrained in me as well. As with bow hunting, black powder hunting, handgun hunting or any other type, buckshot hunting has its limitations as well and you just have to know those limitations and be willing to hunt within those limitations.

I live in Georgia now and all of my deer hunting is done from stands or slip hunting so it's been nearly 30 years since picking up my shotgun and loading it with 00. However, I wouldn't hesitate to do so if I were headed back to S.C. to hear the dogs run again.
Tenn Walker is offline  
Old December 3rd, 2013, 12:28 PM   #23
 
Tater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,044
Tater will become famous soon enoughTater will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenn Walker View Post
Like Gotlabs, I grew up dog hunting in South Carolina and killed my first few deer with buckshot. All of the deer that I shot (using 00 buckshot) went down in short order with both 16 gauge and 12 gauge.

I think that there is more to it than just saying "Yes, it works" or "No, it doesn't".

Let me explain. I grew up hunting. When I say that, I mean I have pictures of my dad holding me while deer hunting when I was four - he killed a spike that morning. I remember carrying my cap gun to the dove field so that I could "help" dad out. Once old enough to deer hunt, my dad made me go with him for three years without a gun and just stand with him. He would not take a questionable shot and that just became ingrained in me as well. As with bow hunting, black powder hunting, handgun hunting or any other type, buckshot hunting has its limitations as well and you just have to know those limitations and be willing to hunt within those limitations.

I live in Georgia now and all of my deer hunting is done from stands or slip hunting so it's been nearly 30 years since picking up my shotgun and loading it with 00. However, I wouldn't hesitate to do so if I were headed back to S.C. to hear the dogs run again.
Thanks for the knowledgeable information.
Tater is offline  
Old December 3rd, 2013, 01:03 PM   #24
 
jimmielee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: eastern shore, MD
Posts: 2,087
jimmielee has a spectacular aura aboutjimmielee has a spectacular aura about
I wouldn't use 000 buckshot for deer but would use 00 up to 25 yards. 000 is .25 caliber roundball and loses velocity quick after 25 yds.
jimmielee is offline  
Old December 3rd, 2013, 01:50 PM   #25
 
Tater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,044
Tater will become famous soon enoughTater will become famous soon enough
000 is actually .36 caliber; 00 is .33 caliber
Tater is offline  
Old December 3rd, 2013, 02:00 PM   #26
 
jimmielee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: eastern shore, MD
Posts: 2,087
jimmielee has a spectacular aura aboutjimmielee has a spectacular aura about
I don't think so Tater...we need an expert to weigh in.
jimmielee is offline  
Old December 3rd, 2013, 02:39 PM   #27
Rifleman
 
Hipower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: North Carolina mountains
Posts: 1,630
Hipower will become famous soon enough
Heck, back in the late 70s and 80s I hunted with either an AR15, or an 18" 12ga shotty. I'm 55 now, and after a relatively long hiatus, started back just this season. I agree with Tenn Walker. Its just part of 'that game', regarding hunting with buckshot and it inherent limitations.

I've only shot 'at' 1 deer with it, and it DRT. So I'm 100% successful with it. But seriously tho, I'd use it again under the right circumstances. Same for the .223 AR for that matter. Shot placement is paramount.

Where I deer/bear/pig(I just say all 3 cause we have'm and they're in season lol) hunted late this afternoon was prime buckshot terrain. But I used a .44 mag carbine.

And those 12ga 3" magnums kick like hell when used in a light alum framed 18". Didn't like shooting to many of those in a row. Yes indeedy.
Hipower is offline  
Old December 3rd, 2013, 02:52 PM   #28
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Mountain Brook, Al
Posts: 173
PowPow is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmielee View Post
I don't think so Tater...we need an expert to weigh in.
Well, either Tater is an expert, or real good at Google, or took a hunter-ed course.
http://www.hunter-ed.com/images/pdfs...shot_sizes.pdf
PowPow is offline  
Old December 3rd, 2013, 03:33 PM   #29
 
jimmielee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: eastern shore, MD
Posts: 2,087
jimmielee has a spectacular aura aboutjimmielee has a spectacular aura about
Hmmm! How is it I can shoot 000 buck round ball out of my .25 cal pneumatic air rifle? Must be something I'm missing I guess...
jimmielee is offline  
Old December 3rd, 2013, 04:06 PM   #30
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Earth
Posts: 568
JD0x0 is on a distinguished road
Shotgun pellet weight (lead) and size
Quote:
#TriBall Buck 20.41 g (315 gr.) 15.24 mm (0.60")
#0000 Buck 5.51 g (85 gr.) 9.40 mm (0.380")
#000 Buck 4.54 g (70 gr.) 9.14 mm (0.360")
#00 Buck 3.49 g (53.8 gr.) 8.38 mm (0.330")
#0 Buck 3.18 g (49 gr.) 8.13 mm (0.320")
#1 Buck 2.62 g (40.5 gr.) 7.62 mm (0.300")
#2 Buck 1.91 g (29.4 gr.) 6.86 mm (0.270")
#3 Buck 1.52 g (23.4 gr.) 6.35 mm (0.250")
#4 Buck 1.34 g (20.7 gr.) 6.09 mm (0.240")
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmielee View Post
Hmmm! How is it I can shoot 000 buck round ball out of my .25 cal pneumatic air rifle? Must be something I'm missing I guess...
See above list. Sounds like you are confusing 000 buck for #3 buck which are NOT the same. #3 buck is 6.5mm/.250'' which would fire out of a .25 cal barrel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmielee View Post
I wouldn't use 000 buckshot for deer but would use 00 up to 25 yards. 000 is .25 caliber roundball and loses velocity quick after 25 yds.
000 Buckshot is LARGER than 00 buckshot, and would NOT fit through a .25 cal barrel. You're confusing 000 buckshot for #3 buckshot, good sir. This is a fairly common mistake IME.
000 Buckshot would be BETTER on deer than 00 buck and 0000 even better still.

Last edited by JD0x0; December 3rd, 2013 at 04:13 PM.
JD0x0 is offline  
Reply

  Ruger Forum > Firearm Forum > Hunting


Search tags for this page
000 buckshot deer hunting
,
buckshot
,

buckshot deer hunting

,

buckshot for deer

,

buckshot for deer hunting

,
buckshot for hunting
,
deer hunting buckshot
,
deer hunting with 00 buckshot
,

deer hunting with buckshot

,

hunting deer with buckshot

,

hunting with buckshot

,
why dont they allow buckshot for deer hunting in pa
Click on a term to search for related topics.

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Ruger Forum Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Took my mini 30 Deer hunting Randy Mc Ruger Semi-Auto 20 November 3rd, 2013 08:48 AM
blackie for deer hunting shaner Ruger Single Action 15 May 31st, 2008 07:27 AM
A Deer Hunting Story??? bowhunter Gun Stories 2 March 30th, 2007 12:58 AM

Top Gun Sites Top Sites List
Powered by vBulletin 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
Copyright © 2006 - 2017 Ruger Forum. All rights reserved.
Ruger Forum is a Ruger Firearms enthusiast's forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent Sturm Ruger & Company Inc. of Southport, CT.