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greatest .22LR kill ever made

This is a discussion on greatest .22LR kill ever made within the Hunting forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Originally Posted by hideit and i thought this was going to be a serious thread Sorry. Share one hunting story from the pops and all ...


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Old January 4th, 2012, 07:26 PM   #31
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and i thought this was going to be a serious thread
Sorry. Share one hunting story from the pops and all hell breaks loose. No more stories for now on only serious replies.



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Old January 4th, 2012, 08:04 PM   #32
 
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The greatest was the one that brought down the red barron in ww1....LOL..ol'rabbit hunter made the shot with a Ruger 10/22 !!
Let's not perpetrate rumors.

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Copyright 2011 MSgt Steven Wilson

On April 21, 1918 Baron Von Richthofen (The Red Baron) was killed down by a single .303 British bullet, as determined by autopsy. It was most probably fired from a Vickers gun from the ground, manned by Sgt Popkin of the Allies' Australian forces.

As much as I like the 10-22, there were non issued to any soldiers or aviators in 1918 in the European Theatre.

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Old January 4th, 2012, 08:35 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Lost Sheep View Post
Let's not perpetrate rumors.

Military History Online
Copyright 2011 MSgt Steven Wilson

On April 21, 1918 Baron Von Richthofen (The Red Baron) was killed down by a single .303 British bullet, as determined by autopsy. It was most probably fired from a Vickers gun from the ground, manned by Sgt Popkin of the Allies' Australian forces.

As much as I like the 10-22, there were non issued to any soldiers or aviators in 1918 in the European Theatre.

Lost Sheep
I knew he was shot down by a 303 but didn't know it was a Vickers. I had heard it was a No 1 or P14 because the plane wasn't shot down but rather the pilot was shot. I'm not an expert so if you know more specific info please share.
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Old January 4th, 2012, 09:10 PM   #34
 
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I knew he was shot down by a 303 but didn't know it was a Vickers. I had heard it was a No 1 or P14 because the plane wasn't shot down but rather the pilot was shot. I'm not an expert so if you know more specific info please share.
Most of what I learned in the past agrees with what was summarized in the link I posted. Previously, I carried the belief that he was hit by a Canadian Corporal firing the same .303 from his Lee-Enfield. Since there were many Aussies and Canucks shooting, it will never be known for certainty. About the only thing for sure is that he was fit from below, and unless he was banking really hard, the pilot originally credited with the kill was not the shooter, and Captain Brown himself apparently never disputed it because he never claimed the kill and his description of the encounter (during which Capt Brown was firing at the Baron) makes it impossible his bullet was the one that killed the Baron, entering from below as it was.

It is a fascinating bit of forensic examination.

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Old January 4th, 2012, 09:21 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Lost Sheep View Post
Most of what I know agrees with what was summarized in the link I posted. Previously, I carried the belief that he was hit by a Canadian Corporal firing the same .303 from his Lee-Enfield. Since there were many Aussies and Canucks shooting, it will never be known for certainty. About the only thing for sure is that he was fit from below, and unless he was banking really hard, the pilot originally credited with the kill was not the shooter, and Captain Brown himself apparently never disputed it because he did not claim the kill and his description of the encounter (during which Capt Brown was firing at the Baron) makes it impossible his bullet terminated the Baron.

It is a fascinating bit of forensic examination.

Lost Sheep
I didn't notice the link until after I sent the reply. I read it shortly after hitting send. Great article.

Gotta love those old 303 Enfields. Especially the Lithgows
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Old January 4th, 2012, 09:29 PM   #36
 
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According to Abraham Lincoln, "the problem with internet quotes is that they're hard to verify."

That being said, I took out a blue whale in Green Lake the other night with a shot from my Ithaca M-49 using iron sights.

Oh, I forgot, this is a .22LR thread... I used a CB. My bad!

Happy New Year, everyone!

-Bill
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Old January 4th, 2012, 10:48 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Sheep View Post
Let's not perpetrate rumors.

Military History Online
Copyright 2011 MSgt Steven Wilson

On April 21, 1918 Baron Von Richthofen (The Red Baron) was killed down by a single .303 British bullet, as determined by autopsy. It was most probably fired from a Vickers gun from the ground, manned by Sgt Popkin of the Allies' Australian forces.

As much as I like the 10-22, there were non issued to any soldiers or aviators in 1918 in the European Theatre.

Lost Sheep
Thank you for the awesome link. love reading stuff from ww1 and ww2.
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Old January 4th, 2012, 11:58 PM   #38
 
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More ?facts? and testimony

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Originally Posted by 303lithgow View Post
I knew he was shot down by a 303 but didn't know it was a Vickers. I had heard it was a No 1 or P14 because the plane wasn't shot down but rather the pilot was shot. I'm not an expert so if you know more specific info please share.
Sorry, I did not mean my post to indicate that is WAS a Vickers Machine Gun for sure. The Lee-Enfield, Lewis and the Vickers used the same .303 Cartridge, so it is not possible to be sure what gun it came from without ballistic fingerprints from the rifling of the bullet that was extracted from the body (and mention of an exit wound tells me this will never happen). But the smart money is on a Vickers, one in particular.

From the best testimony and likelihoods available to investigators from the time of the shooting and from subsequent investigations, it SEEMS most likely that the bullet came from Sgt Popkin's Vickers. But it could have come from any number of Allied troops (of which British and Australians were the most numerous at that time and location) who all had the opportunity to shoot at the German airplane with their Lee-Enfields or even other Vickers or any other rifles chambered for the same round.. Even those who had no idea that it was the infamous Red Baron's airplane.

Heck, it could even been some private who accidentally discharged his rifle with no idea where it was pointed and no idea it was he who brought down that (in)famous flyer.

All we know for sure (from the autopsy report) is the angle the lethal bullet entered the body and Captain Brown's description of von Richthofen's plane's attitude, the pilot's body position during the encounter and Sgt Popkin's report of the timing of the incident, "Sergeant Popkin said, after the event, 'As [von Richthofen] came towards me, I opened fire a second time and observed at once my fire took effect. The machine swerved, attempted to bank and make for the ground, and immediately crashed.' " However, even Sgt Popkin never claimed that it was a certainty the it was he, himself, who had brought down the Red Baron.

I have been curious about von Richtofen's death since I heard that he died of a gunshot wound to the head and made (almost supernaturally) a perfect landing behind the British lines. A perfect Faustian tale. In fact, the wound to his head had been sustained on July 6 1917, nearly a year before his death (at Vauz sur Somme, France, April 21, 1918) and it was not that head wound which killed him. And the perfect landing was far from perfect; it was a crash landing.

So much for legend, the supernatural and the idea that the Baron (or the Kaiser himself) had a pact with the Devil.

"The first casualty of War is the Truth" is a truism at various times attributed to;
Arthur Ponsonby wrote: The 'When war is declared, truth is the first casualty'. (Falsehood in Wartime, 1928)
In 1918 US Senator Hiram Warren Johnson is purported to have said: "The first casualty when war comes is truth."
Samuel Johnson seemed to have had the first word in English literature: 'Among the calamities of war may be jointly numbered the diminution of the love of truth, by the falsehoods which interest dictates and credulity encourages.' (from The Idler, 1758)

but the earliest reference to wartime propaganda by one's own country seems to be:
"In war, truth is the first casualty", Aeschylus Greek tragic dramatist (525 BC - 456 BC)

but Sun Tzu (544–496 BC) may have hinted at it earlier when he said, "All warfare is based on deception"; the Sun Tzu quote actually refers to methods of subterfuge in war, not propagandizing one's own citizenry.

Read for yourself. A good START might be in "The First Casualty" by Philip Knightley

Regardless if it was coined in ancient Greece or the 20th century, villains beget heroes as surely as lies beget truths and truths in service of agendas. Which wartime interests beget more lies. And that applies equally to the Peloponnesian Wars as to the current withdrawal from Iraq or the search for WMDs in 1990-1991.

Where did this soapbox come from and why am I standing on it, shouting and out of breath?

Lost Sheep

Last edited by Lost Sheep; January 5th, 2012 at 12:10 AM.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 12:09 AM   #39
 
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Now, back to the legendary 22 rimfire.

Now, back to the legendary 22 rimfire.

With respect to its ability to take Polar Bears, the preferred 22 caliber to take Polar Bears (with a shot to the eye) is 22-250 or .223 Remington.

The circumpolar Natives in Canada, Greenland and Alaska hunt Polar Bears. No one I know of would PREFER a 22 Rimfire to a centerfire cartridge, but it has been done, I hear.

People make like a seal on the ice pack to entice the bear in close. The bears know enough to cover the only thing that marks them as a predator to the seal (their nose) and will sneak up on a person. When close enough, the "prey"/hunter can take aim and make a brain shot.

Polar Bears are the only animals that deliberately will choose to stalk and eat humans for sustenance, as opposed to opportunistic or defensive attacks. So why people would have to imitate a seal to make a Polar Bear stalk in close I don't know, but this is what I have read.

The whys may be in doubt, but I have no doubt that a 22-250 through the eye socket, aimed at leisure, would take out a stalking Polar Bear. I am not so sure about a 22 LR, or even a .22 Mag.

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Old January 5th, 2012, 01:01 AM   #40
 
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The .22-250 is an awesome little round...I wish the .22LR had half as much power and velocity as the .22-250.

I have a friend who killed a coyote with a .22LR and he estimated the distance at about 100 yards, maybe a little less. I know it's not a legendary kill but nonetheless it's still impressive in my eyes.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 05:53 AM   #41
 
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I grew up in the Amazon rainforest. My parents were missionaries there. Once we could afford to move past bows and arrows, our hunting weapon of choice was the single shot 16 gauge shotgun. It was a wonderful weapon in the jungle with its low light and close ranges. At one village where we lived, however, the chief carried a Rossi .22 pump action long rifle. It was a status symbol and they all considered it far superior to the lowly shotgun. I know he took plenty of game with it, things like turkeys and monkeys, but I never heard of him bringing down something larger like a tapir with it. I remember going out to butcher a freshly killed tapir with the natives. They had brought it down with a round lead shotgun slug. First thing they did was dig out to reuse it. We used to load our own shells. We used common sense, but the natives unfortunately had a number of tragic accidents from excessively hot loads. I did hunt some with the .22 and got some game birds and monkeys with it (I remember one particular long range head shot that made me proud), but it was hard to see the sights in the dark of the jungle.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 06:07 AM   #42
 
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FWIW the .22LR has served ranchers and farmers well for decades dispatching all types of animals. Matter of fact the last .22 I bought was from a guy who raised both pigs and cattle and and used a single .22lr to the head to dispatch either one when it was butchering time.

For those of you who haven't been up close to or butchered a full grown cow they are HUGE. That little .22 looks totally inadequate, but gets the job done. If a forehead shot from a .22 can lay down a big pig or cow, why the heck wouldn't a well placed head shot just below the ear lay down any herbivore on the North American Continent?
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Old January 5th, 2012, 06:12 AM   #43
 
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I have the same model Rossi pump action .22 lr that I mentioned our chief had. I use it regularly for pest control on our little "farm." A coyote was eyeing our goats and one shot dropped it in its tracks at 30+ yards. Useful guns and not too loud.
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Old January 5th, 2012, 06:21 AM   #44
 
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I once shot and killed a dinosaur with a 10/22. I was using 'Shorts' too. The distance was just over 600 yards.
Wow...600 yards...that's getting pretty close, considering the size and speed of those dinosaurs! Nowadays, with speed and strength training, those dinosaur's would get you before you could draw/aim your weapon!
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Old January 5th, 2012, 06:29 AM   #45
 
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FWIW the .22LR has served ranchers and farmers well for decades dispatching all types of animals. Matter of fact the last .22 I bought was from a guy who raised both pigs and cattle and and used a single .22lr to the head to dispatch either one when it was butchering time.

For those of you who haven't been up close to or butchered a full grown cow they are HUGE. That little .22 looks totally inadequate, but gets the job done. If a forehead shot from a .22 can lay down a big pig or cow, why the heck wouldn't a well placed head shot just below the ear lay down any herbivore on the North American Continent?
I love using a 10/22 on 'Coons, Possums, and such...out on the farm! Dad, annually, requests a 'clearing up' of the little varmits...and I am more than happy to oblige! My wife joins me with the Savage .22mag bolt-action which she likes more than the .22lr...which is fine with me as I love my 10/22.

Since I bought my Ruger 10/22 (Black synthetic stock, stainless barrel) 2 years ago...four (4) friends have since purchased their own for plinking fun! Boy do we have fun on our annual "10/22 Day!"
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