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Rifled Shotgun Slug vs Bear???

This is a discussion on Rifled Shotgun Slug vs Bear??? within the Hunting forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Looking for input from anyone who has actually shot larger game with a rifled slug (bear, moose, elk). How did the slug perform, and what ...


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Old March 15th, 2011, 10:29 AM   #1
 
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Rifled Shotgun Slug vs Bear???

Looking for input from anyone who has actually shot larger game with a rifled slug (bear, moose, elk). How did the slug perform, and what did the recovered slug look like?

In the link below, look at the picture of the fired slug. It has flattened out like a coin. Isn't that going to be terribly detrimental to penetration? I have tested slugs on a variety of materials, and they do indeed flatten out. Anyone with practical experience on living tissue?

Federal Premium - Slug Details

I noticed that for "use", Federal recommends the round for "medium" game. In the past, they had recommended it for large game (had a picture of a moose), but no longer. Puzzling.

The reason I picked this load, is that the slug is 547 gr, 1600 fps and 3100 ft lbs of energy.....up there with the .45-70, at least on paper.




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Old March 15th, 2011, 11:00 AM   #2
 
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Shot a few town brown bears with the Federal 1 1/4oz shells and the bears died with one shot,we are talking ten yards or less shots on porches. I now carry the Remington buckhammer and feel sure it will do the job to twenty five yards or so.
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Old March 15th, 2011, 11:26 AM   #3
 
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I am thinking Brenneke Black Magic as an alternative.

Last edited by off road; March 18th, 2011 at 09:50 AM.
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Old March 15th, 2011, 11:43 AM   #4
 
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You need a solid, preferably hard cast.
Brenneke makes this, is widley commercially available, and has a proven track record with big bears.
If you really want big medicine check out Dixie Slugs, they make what they call a Terminator slug, for rifled barrels. It's pretty impressive.

Edit: The above post is geared towards bears. I would feel fine with a regular cup style slug for most anything else.

Last edited by hariph creek; March 15th, 2011 at 01:29 PM.
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Old March 15th, 2011, 12:27 PM   #5
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Several years ago I did a lot of testing with 12 gauge slugs and buckshot. Turns out, slugs can be very accurate if you follow a few simple guide lines. First is the choke ... never shoot slugs from a full choke barrel. Not only will they be inaccurate, they can damage the choke or barrel. Next is never shoot rifled slugs from a shotgun barrel with rifling. It won't hurt anything but accuracy will be poor. Use rifled slugs in smooth bore barrels and "smooth" slugs in rifled barrels. The optimum accuracy for smooth bore barrels and rifled slugs is with an Improved Cylinder choke ... no exceptions. The same applies for double ought and 4 ought buckshot. Patterns are much more uniform when those big pellets don't have to fight a choke.

Using cheap rifled slugs in a Remington 870 with a red dot and an IC choke, 1/2" groups at 50 yards was easy to get (one tattered hole). With the same ammo in a modified choke, the groups spread to about 2", which is still plenty good for close in shots.

Slug expansion is not an issue because the diameter of a 12 gauge slug is already much larger than most rifle bullets after expansion. Slugs create a very large and deep wound channel, which is great for deer sized game up to large bears. I have taken a few mule deer and one whitetail with rifled slugs ... one shot, one kill and the deer went down on the spot. Like any other gun or ammo, shot placement is still very important although with slugs, it's more forgiving than with a normal rifle.

Slugs have a trajectory like a rainbow. When zeroed in at 50 yards, a 5" drop at 100 yards was normal, although the groups did stay fairly tight (about 1.5"). The kill zone on most big game is about an 8 inch circle so you may have to hold a tad high at longer distances. Because the slug is so heavy, it will retain plenty of energy out to at least 100 yards ... probably much more with any game other than bears.
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Old March 15th, 2011, 12:37 PM   #6
 
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Many up here swear by the Black Magic but unless you live in a realy big town you will never find them. Should be easy to find down there unless against the law
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Old March 15th, 2011, 01:07 PM   #7
 
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i have shot 10 or more deer with 12 gauge slugs and they make a big old hole, like iowegan says shot placement is still critical, but it has alot of stopping power and i have no doubt that it has enough power to take down larger game even with cheap hollow point slugs.

i have a hunting buddy who killed a whitetail at 250 yd with an 870 2 years ago i wouldn't have believed it had i not seen it, said he aimed about 2 feet above it's back
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Old March 18th, 2011, 09:27 AM   #8
 
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I have shot more cattle with a 20 ga. fixed full 870 wingmaster then anything else. I always make sure i have a couple slugs with me for that purpose. Trust me, you don't want to have to kill a broken leg cow with 7/8ths ounces of 8 shot. Based on what i've seen on head shots up close with the standard cheap Foster style slugs i wouldn't worry a bit about a bear not being stopped by either a 20 ga. or the 12 that we keep as a camp gun. If i could find a better slug locally i certainly would but for now our camp bear gun is stoked with 1 ounce Fosters. Good luck, hope we never have to find out.
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Old March 18th, 2011, 09:53 AM   #9
 
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I settled on Brenneke Black Magic. I will load the 2 3/4" in black bear country, and 3" for anything bigger.

Black Magic

Thanks!
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Old March 18th, 2011, 10:46 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
... Next is never shoot rifled slugs from a shotgun barrel with rifling. It won't hurt anything but accuracy will be poor. Use rifled slugs in smooth bore barrels and "smooth" slugs in rifled barrels.
I learned this the hard way with my new 870 rifled barrel. Started out using cheap rifled slugs to try to sight in the gun. Shots were all over the place. Finally went to the proper sabots and brought it right into line. Good to know that I could not have done any damage with the rifled slugs.
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Old March 18th, 2011, 12:47 PM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
Many up here swear by the Black Magic but unless you live in a realy big town you will never find them. Should be easy to find down there unless against the law
Bought 10 boxes yesterday. Puzzled why you might imagine that they would be against the law???
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Old March 19th, 2011, 02:43 AM   #12
 
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I know the NRCS up in Alaska uses Remington 870s with slugs for protection against big bear. I know I couldn't pass their training test for bear defense.

I would like to know what type/brand of slugs they issue; that's the one I'd probably use.
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Old March 20th, 2011, 10:16 PM   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tater View Post
I know the NRCS up in Alaska uses Remington 870s with slugs for protection against big bear. I know I couldn't pass their training test for bear defense.

I would like to know what type/brand of slugs they issue; that's the one I'd probably use.
When I was flying the Bush in Alaska on contract to the BLM back in the 1980s, they were issuing Federal slugs I believe.
I always carried 1 1/4 oz slugs in my Coach gun when flying in big bear country.

Last edited by SteveCover; March 20th, 2011 at 10:18 PM.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 12:00 PM   #14
 
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[QUOTE=Iowegan;351656]Several years ago I did a lot of testing with 12 gauge slugs and buckshot. Turns out, slugs can be very accurate if you follow a few simple guide lines. First is the choke ... never shoot slugs from a full choke barrel. Not only will they be inaccurate, they can damage the choke or barrel. Next is never shoot rifled slugs from a shotgun barrel with rifling. It won't hurt anything but accuracy will be poor. Use rifled slugs in smooth bore barrels and "smooth" slugs in rifled barrels. The optimum accuracy for smooth bore barrels and rifled slugs is with an Improved Cylinder choke ... no exceptions. The same applies for double ought and 4 ought buckshot. Patterns are much more uniform when those big pellets don't have to fight a choke.

Hey Iowegan,great post thanks for the info,just a question,my two main shottys that i would use slugs in are my rem 870 with imp cyl and modified chokes ,using the imp cyl for solids,i also have an Ithaca m37 deerslayer with the rifle sight barrel and a fixed choke,according to my choke gauge the deer slayer has a choke that measures halfway between modified and full upon emailing Ithaca they got back to me with this response.
quote#

Your model 37 was made in 1974, the deerslayer barrels did have a tighter ID of the bore but they are a straight walled bore with no “choke” at the end. These barrels were designed this way to support a steady flight path for shooting slugs.
un quote#

Obviously the Deer slayer with that type of barrel is designed with the intention of buck shot and slugs but as you say i always thought cyl / imp cyl to be the optimum choke for these loads,so why do they use the tighter choke for a barrel which would be mainly dedicated to solids / buckshot and how do you think this barrel will pattern with BBs,no3s or bird shot?.
cheers my learned friend your input would be greatly appreciated
Kiwi.

Last edited by kiwihunter; March 28th, 2011 at 12:02 PM.
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Old March 29th, 2011, 09:12 AM   #15
 
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I have actually gotten impressive accuracy out if my .410 870 Wingmaster with the fixed full choke barrel, my 20 gauge same thing, with somewhat poorer accuracy. We are still talking about a smooth barrel firearm. I keep my Undertaker super full turkey choke tube in my 12 gauge except when it's on bear duty or hunting as i always carry no. 4 buck on the ranch for it's duties. I myself have been very impressed with it as the pattern density is vastly supperior to OObuck. However i would never run a slug through it unless i was very hard pressed.
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