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Anti-Hunters and Cecil the Lion-Two threads merged

3K views 30 replies 22 participants last post by  terry_p 
#1 · (Edited)
why not just launch a drone?

EDIT.
let me add some stuff.

the lion was wearing a GPS-tracking collar.
How do we know if the Park Rangers, if there are any,
are not taking $$$ from the poachers?
Are the tracking-collars secure from hackers?

what is next? caged female-lion-in-heat driven around
by the Park Rangers as a lure?
 
#2 ·
I don't think the tracking collar was to locate a lion for hunting. But I don't think using any kind of locating technology to locate game is hunting either. Hunting to me is getting out and finding the game yourself, preseason scouting or even if you're inclined hiring a guide, but a drone or a tracking collar takes the fair chase part out of the hunt, might as well shoot a cow in the pasture.
 
#5 ·
Anti-Hunters and Cecil the Lion

As the only hunter in my small company, I am getting a lot of questions from the non-hunters, and I suspect a few anti-hunters, about my take on the Walter Palmer/Cecil the Lion story.

I tell people that I was taught by my father to be respectful of the animals I hunt. His belief, and so my belief, is that we don't hunt to simply kill an animal, (which a lot of non and anti-hunters believe), we hunt because it's part of our lives. My Dad's rule was, unless it's a pest or menace like a mouse or rat, if you kill an animal, you eat that animal. He loved pheasant and duck and goose, and that's what he hunted. In our part of Illinois, that was about all the wild game animals that you could hunt at that time. There were no deer or turkey seasons back then.

We farmed and he wouldn't even kill foxes that would get into the chickens because he thought they were beautiful animals and beneficial in the long run because they kept down the ground squirrel population which would damage our crops.

So that's what I relate. It's a family tradition as I go hunting with my brothers and nephews, and we eat everything we hunt. My kids have eaten more venison, doves, wild turkey, goose, duck and pheasants in their lives than most people. And I think there is a definite health benefit to eating wild game as it is low in cholesterol and hasn't been filled with anti-biotics and growth hormones.

I said almost every hunter I know is also a strong conservationist that works for maintaining and improving habitat for the wild game in our country.

I end with the comment that while I would love to go on a safari in Africa, I would probably prefer shooting animals with my camera than my rifle. I don't have any desire to kill any of those big game animals because first of all, I don't want to hunt a diminishing species even if it is legal, and second, I wouldn't eat a lion or other large cat, and I doubt if I would be able to bring the meat home from any animal I would hunt over in Africa.

Now if happened to shoot a big 10 point buck this deer season, I would certainly have it mounted. But the primary reason I hunt is I like to eat the animals I go after. Tagging the big trophy specimen would just be icing on the cake. If I can't bring the meat home, I really don't want to hunt it. Which is why I have no desire to go on an African safari except to take pictures of those magnificent animals that I have never seen in their natural habitat.

I also tell people if managed correctly, the trophy/big game hunting can be a boon for conservation of these endangered species and for the economies of these African countries. I said shooting a lion such as Cecil is something that does not appeal to me, but I would like to see how Dr. Palmer approached this hunt. There are so many conflicting stories about it right now. If he did anything illegal, he needs to be held accountable, but if the lion was legally taken, then that's another story.

The responses I'm getting are that hunting for meat for the freezer is OK with most non-hunters, but once you start to hunt strictly for a wall decoration or to feed your ego, it should be outlawed. Of course the anti-hunters don't think hunting should be allowed at all, but you will never change their minds.

I'm concerned that many non-hunters will rush to judgment about this story and swallow the media hype without looking into what really happened and move from the non-hunter into the anti-hunting category.

Any thoughts?
 
#7 ·
Pretty disgusting behavior for someone who claims to be a hunter and/or sportsman. Not sure what the benefit is to killing a lion in the first place. Shooting an animal for food is one thing, killing one just to say you did is rather stupid in my opinion. I hope the US sends the guy back to Africa to face the courts there. Might send a message to anyone else with similar ideas.

Bob
 
#13 ·
I agree. I am not a hunter, but if I was, I would not be a trophy hunter.

Honestly though, I am already tired of hearing about this. Let the authorities do what they need to and make the call if this was a legal hunt or not. If illegal, he will get punished accordingly.

Until then, let the man alone.
 
#15 ·
Very well said CWPhelps. With the exception of coyotes (depending on the local Deer population), I won't/don't hunt it if I'm not going to eat it.

The Deer population here has exploded from extremely lucky to see one 40-50 years ago, to way over populated to the point of being more of a pest. Car -Truck- Motorcycle verses Deer accidents are an everyday occurrence. They show almost no fear of humans and wreak havoc in city gardens, flower beds and yards. They can clean a bird feeder out in seconds. All this comes from mismanagement and over-restricted hunting regulations over the years and created a whole new environmental problem to deal with.

As for Cecil the Lion story. That never should have happened. He was lured off a game reserve away from his Pride. There is much more to that story than is being told and the media is going for ratings as usual and making the Dentist the fall guy. Game poaching of every species is a high dollar market in many parts of the world and VERY hard to control. Even on game reserves they have heavily armed roving patrols that can't keep up.
 
#17 ·
The guide is clearly the one responsible here. If he felt that what the hunter was doing was wrong then it was up to him to stop him or report him to authorities immediately and stop the hunt. As I see it the hunter saw a nice lion that his guide put him in front of and killed it. Did he know it was named Cecil, I sincerely doubt it.

The hype over this is unbelievable. Mia Farrow tweeted that the lion was the protector of 7 cubs. Male lions are a threat to cubs, hello earth to Mia. Mama lion is the protector.

Finally I have no issue to anyone hunting any legal game. If lions are declining it is because their habitat has shrunk due to agriculture and human development. Hunters, primarily are the ones most responsible for the survival of the species. The dollars raised in the fees they pay help pay for game preserves, habitat restoration and conservation efforts:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/18/opinion/saving-lions-by-killing-them.html?_r=0

The rules are strict to hunt them and it brings an additional bonus of providing employment along with the purchases of local goods and services.

Any game that is edible in Africa is eaten by someone. African's celebrate when the hunter makes a kill because it is meat for their village. Could be elephant, cape buffalo or other game but the villages are happy to take the meat.
 
#21 ·
The guide is clearly the one responsible here. If he felt that what the hunter was doing was wrong then it was up to him to stop him or report him to authorities immediately and stop the hunt. As I see it the hunter saw a nice lion that his guide put him in front of and killed it. Did he know it was named Cecil, I sincerely doubt it.

The hype over this is unbelievable. Mia Farrow tweeted that the lion was the protector of 7 cubs. Male lions are a threat to cubs, hello earth to Mia. Mama lion is the protector.

Finally I have no issue to anyone hunting any legal game. If lions are declining it is because their habitat has shrunk due to agriculture and human development. Hunters, primarily are the ones most responsible for the survival of the species. The dollars raised in the fees they pay help pay for game preserves, habitat restoration and conservation efforts:

The rules are strict to hunt them and it brings an additional bonus of providing employment along with the purchases of local goods and services.

Any game that is edible in Africa is eaten by someone. African's celebrate when the hunter makes a kill because it is meat for their village. Could be elephant, cape buffalo or other game but the villages are happy to take the meat.
That's very true. Momma rules the roost, the Alpha Female rules the pride.

In the cat family, when a new male "takes over" the pride and kicks (or runs off) the old Alpha male, he will kill all the juveniles under a certain age produced by the old Alpha male.

Mia needs to stick to acting... her time has come to "fade to black", carriers over.
 
#18 ·
I'm still wondering why this news is making national headlines and being covered by all the major networks when the videos of Planned Parenthood selling baby parts is being pushed under the rug? The media yawns over it. Did Cecil the lion cure cancer or something I am not aware of? Was he doing something other than what normal lions do? Like peeing in the grass, licking his butt, eating antelopes. It's baffling to me that our society places more worth on a lion halfway across the world than the babies who could have become the next inventors, scientists, pioneers, etc. I love animals just as much as anyone else but this story is beyond ridiculous to me because I'm certain there are hundreds of poachers in Zimbabwe who have never even got a slap on the wrist for doing worse, but hey a dentist that's someone we can screw over. The liberal media wants you to mourn over a dead lion but yet besides the argument of it being endangered, they can't explain why or if a dead lion in Africa will affect your day to day life here in the U.S.

What's sad is that a year from now no one will remember Dr. Palmer. We'll see a washed up soul who lost their business and their dignity.
 
#19 ·
Baiting lions and other large cats is a long established practice. Just because a lion named for tourist succumbed to the practice does not in any way make it horrific. This mess is being blown way out of proportion. People screaming for this mans head literally and on their way to the abortion clinic probably.
Modern priorities as set by liberal media have lost touch with reality.
 
#22 ·
He's taken the hunt out of hunting.....
 
#23 ·
Walter Palmer was convicted in federal court of lying to federal game officials and illegally hunting a black bear, both felonies. He was fined $3000 and sentenced to a year's probation.

He's a convicted felon. He shouldn't even be allowed to have a gun, much less travel the world killing animals with one. He should be charged in this country of being a convicted felon in possession of a firearm or firearms.

The feds want to question Palmer, but he's hiding from them. He's bordering on being a fugitive from justice.

Zimbabwe has filed a formal request with our government to extradite him to possibly stand trial. He could face fifteen years in an African prison.

A petition with well over 600,000 signatures (mine is one of them) has been sent to the Obama administration through the official white house website. The petition needed only 100,000 signatures for the Department of Justice to be required to offer some sort of response or take some sort of action. So far, the DOJ is waffling, and there's been no official comment from the president.

This is also important: Palmer gives real hunters and real sportsmen a bad name. He gives gun owners a bad name. He makes us all look bad. People like Walter Palmer and the people who support him are as big of a threat to our Second Amendment rights as anyone who works for Goldberg, or the Brady organization, or any other anti-gun group. They'll be on this as an example of irresponsible gun ownership like a duck on a Junebug. They already are.

My opinion, and my opinion only, is that Walter Palmer is a criminal on the run from justice. He will have to surface sooner or later. I hope he's punished to the full extent of the law, whichever country punishes him.

Personally, I'd like nothing better than to see him rot in an African prison. Well, actually there are other things I'd like better, but rotting in prison will do for now.
 
#26 ·
Some here want Obama to send him back to Africa for killing a cat yet he allows illegal Mexacans to kill Americans and remain here in our country. I think he should stay her do his time if found guilty and pay for what he has done. If found guilty! Many in our society would end hunting through out the world yet they do not realize that our hunting rollers are what sustain the wildlife all over the world. This is a Medea ploy to make hunting and hunters look bad.
 
#27 · (Edited)
#29 ·
Personally, I can't believe the world has chosen this story to champion. With everything else going on from Planned Parenthood to the atrocities against Christians in the Middle East, to our border security/illegal alien problems to a soon-to-be nuclear Iran and this is what we are worried about! It's sickening and embarrassing. We have taken our eye off the ball, people.

One day our children are going to look back at us and ask us what where we thinking!
 
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