Diamond Jim

ok, I have an SP101 revolver in .357. When I do rapid fire double action drills (riding the reset) every once in a while--say, 1% of the time--I get an incomplete reset and the next trigger pull rotates the cylinder but the hammer does not cycle. Almost always the next one is fine (occasionally I get the same thing to happen twice in a row).

I cannot reliably force this to happen either. Sometimes when I pull the trigger and reset slowly, I can get it to do this, but not usually and the trigger pull doesn't feel any different at the point of reset--it's only afterwards when the pull seems lighter than it should be.

Does anyone have insight into this issue, or has anyone experienced this before?

Diamond Jim

It seems to happen best if I pull back on the trigger right as it clicks. on the reset. If I allow the trigger to go fully forward it never happens.

rammerjammer

I have experienced the same lock up on all three of my SP101s and LCR. I don't know what to call it but it is operator error in the trigger pull, not a mechanical error.

jaxrider14

Unlike many semi-auto pistols that will fire again from a midpoint trigger reset, I don't think your revolver is designed to do what you are asking it to do.

My understanding with my older Ruger revolver (and with my S&W revolver) is that you have to let the trigger come much farther forward for the hammer to reset.

Diamond Jim

hmm, is there any way I can tweak it so it will work?

pell

In my experience, one can't reliably ride the reset on a revolver.

Why? See:

"With any double-action revolver ever built, the trigger must be returned to its forward position before firing the next shot."
@ Ruger LCR .38 Special Pocket Revolver Update

and

"Again, it doesn't matter how fast the trigger is operated as long as the operator allows the trigger to reset completely. This seems to be a particular issue with shooters who have a lot of experience with autoloading pistols, where it's commonly taught to feel for a click denoting trigger reset and immediately commence another trigger press. It works with autoloaders, but not with revolvers"
@ The Case Of The Locked-Up Rugers. | Gunsmithing, Revolvers | GrantCunningham.com

Breadman03

Practice a full trigger pull. It will make you a much better shooter. The fraction of a second that can be gained by short stroking the trigger is easily lost many times over when you have to cycle through the whole cylinder to get back to the missed chamber.

Diamond Jim

Interesting. But my Ruger is acting like a Smith per the article...did they change the design of the internals at some point?

pell

I've not seen a reliable source detailing mods/improvements in factory Rugers. I suspect some changes are subtle and others proprietary. In any case, as I said, I've not found any detailed histories of design changes.

Like you, I have had the "Smith" problem as well as the "Ruger" problem on with the SP101 and the GP100. I suspect that the "Smith" failure mode on the Ruger is really a "Ruger" failure partially, but incompletely, resolved.

I came to revolvers from autos (G27, G21) and have an LCP for EDC. All of those ride the sear reliably, so it's an easy habit to carry into revolvers. Cunningham's comment about the mid-return cylinder bolt click is especially true for my SP101 ... it's a pronounced "thunk" with my gun.

tglazie

I stronger trigger return spring might help. If you are only seeing a failure 1% of the time it doesnt sound like you would need much more than a slightly strong trigger return to knock that 1% down to 0%.

Its just a thought. I have never tried to ride the reset on a revolver.

Rover

Either that or reduce friction in the trigger assembly by cleaning out the spring channel and some judicious polishing.

Cunningham on his blog said the following:

"Revolver malfunctions, Part Three.
Monday, July 02, 2012

There are really only two "malfunctions" that can be attributed to shooter technique, and they're both easily avoided.

The first is a failure to properly reset the trigger. This is especially common with autoloader shooters who pick up a Ruger revolver: used to resetting the trigger until they hear or feel a "click", they do the same on their revolver and...the trigger locks up! The trigger won't compress until it's allowed to travel all the way forward, to its rest position, and then the trigger stroke may be restarted.

This is simply a case of bad habits. The correct way to use a revolver's double action trigger is to let the trigger return completely before commencing another shot. There is no such thing as "riding the sear" or "catching the link" with a revolver; trying to do so will simply cause the gun to not function in the expected manner. It's a user problem, not a revolver problem."

and:
The Case Of The Locked-Up Rugers.
Wednesday, December 01, 2010

Over the years I've gotten a number of inquiries that sound something like this: "I was reading a forum about Rugers locking the trigger when shooting fast. What's with that - any truth?"

This is a question that comes up often enough that I've actually written a boilerplate answer that I paste into my email replies. I think it's worth discussing here.

First, the wording of the question (and the complaint that engenders the question) implies that the gun is somehow at fault. It's not! It's an operator issue, pure and simple: the shooter is not letting the trigger reset fully before commencing another cycle. If the trigger is reset all the way forward, the problem doesn't occur. It matters not how quickly the gun is fired as long as the trigger is properly reset.

If the trigger isn't reset on a S&W revolver, the common sequence is the cylinder rotating to the next live round but the hammer not being activated. This is called a 'short stroke' and results in a skipped round. The trigger then has to be reset and pulled again to get another round under the hammer and fire. If the same thing is done on a Ruger, the trigger locks in the forward position, not advancing the cylinder or firing a round, until - again! - the trigger is allowed to reset.

The net result with both systems is the same: if the shooter wants another shot, he/she must let the trigger reset fully before commencing another pull. The only difference is that the S&W will skip a round and the Ruger won't. The cause and remedy are the same with both guns; only the symptoms are different.

(It's possible Ruger designed their action specifically to avoid the S&W 'short stroke' issue. Perhaps Ed Harris will read this and chime in as to the design philosophy behind the Ruger's lockwork.)

That having been said, there is a difference between the way that Ruger approaches the trigger reset sequence and the way that S&W does it, and it does have a small influence on shooter behavior. As the Ruger resets, at one point it transmits a unique and very discernible "click" through the trigger. At the point the 'click' happens, the cylinder bolt - the little thing at the bottom of the frame that pops up to lock the cylinder - hasn't yet reset, which means the cylinder is still locked and the trigger isn't yet be able to unlock it. The hand, which rotates the cylinder and is attached to the trigger, is trying to rotate something that's held solid. It's a little like trying to turn a doorknob that's locked, and that's what the shooter feels through the trigger.

Again, it doesn't matter how fast the trigger is operated as long as the operator allows the trigger to reset completely. This seems to be a particular issue with shooters who have a lot of experience with autoloading pistols, where it's commonly taught to feel for a click denoting trigger reset and immediately commence another trigger press. It works with autoloaders, but not with revolvers. (This is yet another example of autopistol techniques being inappropriately applied to revolver shooting, hence my saying: a revolver IS NOT a low-capacity autoloader!)

When I do action work on the Ruger guns I do some things to reduce that false reset indication. It's not possible to make it go away completely, but I can reduce it enough (and change the initiation point just a bit) that most shooters no longer notice.

Still, it's worth remembering that the Ruger 'problem' is only a problem if the shooter doesn't understand the idea of trigger reset. S&W has a problem too, but for some reason it's not a bone of contention to the same extent as Ruger's behavior. Both are a consequence of inadequately experienced shooters, not any design fault with the guns."

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_...revolvers.html

rockmcl

"If I allow the trigger to go fully forward it never happens."

I have observed this on LCR, SP & GP. As noted above, you must train to let the revolver trigger go all the way forward. (I have had a GP100 skip a round, described as only a smith issue, ONE TIME in a rapid fire sequence.)

If you shoot semis alot and you finally learn to run the gun/trigger right, you will need to train alot with your revolvers too. Me, I see that as a positive, like I need another excuse to shoot more. It is always a bad day if you have to defend yourself, so it would double suck if you hang up the gun in the critical seconds you are shooting.

Practice practice practice

MinuteMan1989

I seem to be having the same issue with my SP101. but it didn't start until I replaced the mainspring. and even when i put the old mainspring back in it was still doing it. Does anyone have an idea how to fix it?