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Specs for Grip Panel Screws 22/45 MKIII Hunter RP

This is a discussion on Specs for Grip Panel Screws 22/45 MKIII Hunter RP within the Gunsmithing forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; I am replacing my Ruger original grips with some (fancy) after-market grips. On one of the four screws, the add-on panel is a bit too ...


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Old August 22nd, 2011, 09:20 AM   #1
 
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Specs for Grip Panel Screws 22/45 MKIII Hunter RP

I am replacing my Ruger original grips with some (fancy) after-market grips.
On one of the four screws, the add-on panel is a bit too thick for the original screw to "bite".
On the Ruger site I was unable to find the specs for these screws (Ruger describes them in the exploded parts as standard.)
Rather than take a screw with me to a hardware store and ask for one with the same size head and diameter and thread but a few (2 or 3 max) millimeters longer, I would have liked to sound "professional" and ask for a number xyz screw with a klm head and xx.xx dia and x/zz thread kind of.

Can anybody help?

Thanks



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Old August 22nd, 2011, 09:39 AM   #2
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3strokes, Why don't you just drill the hole in the grip panel a tad deeper? Ruger uses a #6 screw with 40 tpi ... not likely to find one at a hardware store.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 10:09 AM   #3
 
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As Iowegan stated, you are not likely to find what you want in any hardware store. Being in the grip business, I needed longer screws for my plow handle type grips.

I don't like to see that big quarter inch hole in a custom grip with the grip screw ferrule set way down in it. I mount my ferrule just below the surface and since Rugers grip screws are too short the only thing I could do was have a machine shop make my grip screws.

Most gun screws are special made screws and not likely to be found in any hardware store. But if I was trying to find anything in a hardware store I would much rather walk into the store with an example of what I needed rather than try to explain to some kid fresh out of high school what I needed.

"This is the screw, I need one .187" longer". Makes more sense to me.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 11:20 AM   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
3strokes, Why don't you just drill the hole in the grip panel a tad deeper? Ruger uses a #6 screw with 40 tpi ... not likely to find one at a hardware store.
Somehow, I knew that IOWEGAN would be the first responder

Iowegan, I only use hand tools and with my hand electric drill I cannot be sure to take off enough to for the screw to grab the threads and still sit on a solid ledge within the top grip. (I also have an inner Pachmayr finger grooves insert. It's quite thin. I'm thinking of cutting off a part of the insert that sits between the grip panel and the frame, thus eliminating one (thin) thickness and relying on the bottom screw (it went IN OK) and the body of the grip panel itself to hold the insert in place.

I'll try that and see how it goes.

I will also try Caryc's suggestion above (taking a specimen screw to the store or maybe to a machine shop.)
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 12:17 PM   #5
 
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I didn't actually mean to suggest you go to a machine shop. Any machine shop you go to will require a minimum order before they will even think about setting up a screw machine.

Although if you have any small family type shops in your area, you might get one to do you a favor and help you out if they have the time.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 12:29 PM   #6
 
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Accuracy grips for 22/45 Mark III

Quote:
Originally Posted by caryc View Post
I didn't actually mean to suggest you go to a machine shop. Any machine shop you go to will require a minimum order before they will even think about setting up a screw machine.

Although if you have any small family type shops in your area, you might get one to do you a favor and help you out if they have the time.
I kind of guessed that that would be the case.
I did talk to a few hardware shops specializing in fasteners.
They all told me to try a gunsmith.
I just got off the phone with our lone gunsmith in Ottawa and he was surprised that I wanted a 6-40. He said most gunsmithing screws were 48s.
Anyway, I'll be visiting him tomorrow with my screw in hand and we'll see if he has anything around that will do. I'd rather try this route than my (own) suggestion to cut out the part of the fingergrooves' that fits under the grip panel.

I just got a great grip kit from Accuracygrip
Accuracy Grip by Firearms Experts.
It's made for the 1911 but works great for the 22/45 Mark III
(I have some 22/45 aftermarket grips installed on my GSG 1911)

It's modular with a thumb rest on one-side (already done) but with a very new and interesting improvement to the right grip: several modules that can place the trigger finger in an ideal position to isolate the tip for firing without having the index finger inadvertently affect the pull. You have to see it on the site. Images and details.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 01:50 PM   #7
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3strokes, Yes, most gun screws are odd ball threads. I guess that's to keep hardware stores out of the gunsmith business??? Ruger uses the same grip screws on their P-series pistols and Mark series pistols. Why 40 tpi? Who knows but if you think that is strange, 1911 grip screws are 50 tpi. Hardware store fine threads #6 screws are 32 tpi. 48 tpi screws are standard for D&T receiver scope mounts and other applications.

If you have a friend with a drill press, he can drill the grip hole a bit deeper without going completely through the panel. All drill presses have a "limit adjust" where you can set the max drilling depth. By doing so, the bit will not travel far enough to go completely through. This is a much better solution than trying to find a longer screw.

Just an FYI .... fine thread screws need to be seated as deep as possible. Holding on by just a few threads is not good and often results in stripping the threads in the frame, which is much softer metal than the screw. With Mark series pistols, you don't want the screw to go deeper than flush with the inside of the frame or it will interfere with the magazine. If you mount as factory grip panel with a factory screw, you will see the screw tip is very close to flush.
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Old August 23rd, 2011, 06:54 AM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
3strokes, Yes, most gun screws are odd ball threads. I guess that's to keep hardware stores out of the gunsmith business??? Ruger uses the same grip screws on their P-series pistols and Mark series pistols. Why 40 tpi? Who knows but if you think that is strange, 1911 grip screws are 50 tpi. Hardware store fine threads #6 screws are 32 tpi. 48 tpi screws are standard for D&T receiver scope mounts and other applications.

If you have a friend with a drill press, he can drill the grip hole a bit deeper without going completely through the panel. All drill presses have a "limit adjust" where you can set the max drilling depth. By doing so, the bit will not travel far enough to go completely through. This is a much better solution than trying to find a longer screw.

Just an FYI .... fine thread screws need to be seated as deep as possible. Holding on by just a few threads is not good and often results in stripping the threads in the frame, which is much softer metal than the screw. With Mark series pistols, you don't want the screw to go deeper than flush with the inside of the frame or it will interfere with the magazine. If you mount as factory grip panel with a factory screw, you will see the screw tip is very close to flush.
Thanks Iowegan.
I checked the magwell on my 22/45.
There are two ribs on each internal side of the grips that between
them guide the thin magazine. They are each about 2 to 3 millimeters away from the internal sides of the frame. I therefore have room to play with longer screws without having to interfere with the magazine.
The thing is that the old screws when inserted in the new finger grip extenders do not even protrude enough to even be on a plane surface. I just need enough extra length for the screws to go into the thread by the same amount as the old screws did with the original grips.
And if the screw I find (hopefully) is a mite too long, there is enough of a "well" in the extender that I could add a washer or two to control the amount of extension of the longer screw. I just hope to find one such beast.

If not I might have to find a different screw size and its corresponding bushing that I'd need to have installed for that specific part.

I have looked at the hole and at the "ledge" on which the screw head sits, I don't think there's enough thickness to drill any part of that thickness enough to matter and enough to not weaken it. Once that is drilled out, it'd be a whole 'nuther story.
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Old August 23rd, 2011, 08:26 AM   #9
 
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Back from the gunsmith

He looked at the grip screw (went inside and came back out) and said it was not a 40TPI but more like a decimal thread.
Anyway we found a solution. He's going to thread a bushing for a screw he has (he mentioned an 8-40 or what sounded like it.)
I'm going with that solution. (I'll see if he has one or two extra screws for the new bushing, so that in case I want to switch to a thinner grip I can use a shorter screw for that specific location (Right grip upper screw.)
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Old August 23rd, 2011, 09:49 AM   #10
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3strokes, I have both tpc and tpi thread gauges and rechecked the screw. None of the tpc (metric) gauges aligned. The 40 tpi gauge aligned perfectly. Thread gauges look like a short hacksaw blade and it appears your gunsmith doesn't have one. FYI, Ruger has never used metric pins or screws in any of their guns.

Personally, I think you are making a poor choice but it is your gun and your money. There's no way I would modify a gun to accommodate a set of grips. Think of this .... if standard Ruger wood grips have enough hole thickness to work .... the same screw will work just fine with other grips.
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Old August 23rd, 2011, 10:41 AM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
3strokes, I have both tpc and tpi thread gauges and rechecked the screw. None of the tpc (metric) gauges aligned. The 40 tpi gauge aligned perfectly. Thread gauges look like a short hacksaw blade and it appears your gunsmith doesn't have one. FYI, Ruger has never used metric pins or screws in any of their guns.

Personally, I think you are making a poor choice but it is your gun and your money. There's no way I would modify a gun to accommodate a set of grips. Think of this .... if standard Ruger wood grips have enough hole thickness to work .... the same screw will work just fine with other grips.
I respect your vast knowledge but I wasn't going to argue with a locally respected and well-known gunsmith citing (no disrespect meant) an experienced gentleman on the Ruger website.

The thing is that that specific finger extension part as its hole for the screw positioned just a bit too high for the screw to protrude beyond it's base. The original bushing does protrude a wee bit, enough for the Ruger grips or even the Accuracy Grip basic panels to engage the thread. The left panel with thumb-rest went in without a hitch.

With this solution, I'll be able to install the finger extension thingamajig (there are five of them of different external sizes, to place the trigger finger's tip exactly where you want it on the trigger time after time. They also, indirectly, help keep the finger OFF the trigger.)

I'll try to take a picture of the underside of one of those extensions (I just have a phone camera so I don't know about the quality of the pix.)

Did you have a chance to look at their site?
Accuracy Grip - Developed by Firearms Experts.
It's an extremely interesting concept; it allows a shooter to almost
sculpt a grip almost like the one tailored to the hands of the shooters where it's more of a glove than a grip. It's not quite that advanced, but I placed the extensions on the pistol and the feeling is fantastic.
That's why I'm going to such lengths to have it installed.
It's a product manufactured for the 1911 Government, which is why it almost fits the Ruger 22/45.

I actually have a pair of Ruger grips with thumb-rest installed on my GSG 1911 (.22cal), but I'd rather try to perfect the Ruger for serious target shooting (and leave the GSG as my second, kinda plinker, even though we don't plink in Canada's gun-ranges.)

Naturally, I could have avoided all this headache by putting the made-for-Ruger grips on the Ruger and the 1911 on the GSG 1911.

All that being said, Iowegan, I must tell you that I admire and respect your knowledge and help and will keep looking for your posts (here and elsewhere.)
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Old August 23rd, 2011, 11:32 AM   #12
 
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I have just received the following response from Ruger's tech support.

It is a hex head 3/32, and a number 6 screw with a 48 revolution. So a 6/48.

Did I misread 6-40 (post #2) ?
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Old August 23rd, 2011, 08:13 PM   #13
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3strokes, Well, I checked, double checked, and checked again. My MK III grips screws are defiantly 6x40 as are the screws in my old Ruger Standard. I even mated the screw with a clearly marked tap ... 6x40. The only thing I can think of is .... Ruger uses a different thread on the 22/45. This doesn't make sense because all Mark Series since 1949 used 6x40 grip screws. Oh well, learn something new every day.
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Old August 24th, 2011, 07:50 AM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
3strokes, Well, I checked, double checked, and checked again. My MK III grips screws are defiantly 6x40 as are the screws in my old Ruger Standard. I even mated the screw with a clearly marked tap ... 6x40. The only thing I can think of is .... Ruger uses a different thread on the 22/45. This doesn't make sense because all Mark Series since 1949 used 6x40 grip screws. Oh well, learn something new every day.
I think that, as you suggest, Ruger has gone way off track for that model.
And not only for that screw.
Example:
I was trying (I succeeded finally) to defeat the magazine safety and one of the methods (apart from the washers) was to use the Sam Lam Hammer bushing. (I even bought a VQ Target Hammer and a VQ Exact Edge extractor and installed them. Don't ask me how. Various videos and Guntalk-online.)
Anyway I receive the bushing but the hammer pin would NOT go into the bushing.
"No way," Sam said. I know the exact dimensions needed.
Anyway I ended up sending him the actual Hammer pin and it was of a thickness (diameter) Sam had not seen before. He made me a tailored Sam Lam bushing Version2.22/45 MkIII if you will and it worked perfectly.

Don't you hate it when you look at an exploded parts diagram and they only say Std screw (no specs)?

I appreciate your explanations. I received the new grip (frame only. I left the received/bolt at home so as not to require to obtain a special Onetime ATT (Authorization to Transport) for the gunsmith.)
Can't wait to get home and mate top and bottom (but ly, my next opportunity to shoot is Sat morning.)
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Old August 24th, 2011, 09:26 AM   #15
 
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Merely reinforces the old standby: "With Ruger, never say never!"

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