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Cutting the forcing cone

This is a discussion on Cutting the forcing cone within the Gunsmithing forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; I'll start a new thread on the subject instead of going off topic in the other thread about cylinder throats. Originally Posted by Iowegan The ...


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Old June 29th, 2010, 12:54 AM   #1
 
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Cutting the forcing cone

I'll start a new thread on the subject instead of going off topic in the other thread about cylinder throats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
The 11 deg forcing cone reamer in your reference is pretty worthless without the shaft, handle, and bore guide. Here's the kit I use: BROWNELLS : 11 .38-.45 Caliber (080-479-451) - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools This kit comes with the handle, shaft, bore guide, Allen wrench, and breaker bar. It has both the 11 deg and 82 degree reamers. 82 deg is a bit confusing because it's really an 8 degree reamer (90-82=8) with the opposite reference point. The 8 deg reamer can also be used to cut forcing cones or to break the sharp edge on the mouth after you cut a new cone with an 11 deg reamer. It also works well for chamfering the mouth of revolver chambers to make them work better with speed loaders.

The throat reamer in your reference has a 1/4" square drive that would probably work well with a standard tap handle. I use this one (same price) and use a drill chuck as a handle: MANSON PRECISION : .357 Cal. Throat Reamer w/.354" Pilot (513-000-078) - World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhistlerSWE View Post
I am confused. I ordered this kit some time ago and received it today. It only has the 11 degree cutter, bore guide, the shaft, handle and breaker bar. There is no 82 degree cutter for the chamber mouths.

Also, the instructions say to turn it clockwise. Is it clockwise from the handle's point of view or from the cutter's? If I look at it with the muzzle towards me a clockwise turn on the handle will be an anticlockwise turn if looked upon with the muzzle pointing away from me.
Ok, I got the clockwise thing, it was pretty obvious once I attached the cutter on the shaft.

Every document I've read says that it is easy to see how much to cut, but that you should be careful not to cut too deep. I started doing some cutting and within just three or four turns reached the lands. How do I judge if my cut is too deep? I can see that the cut has shaved off some material off of two of the lands, but the rest remains untouched. Should I cut deeper so that all lands have a smooth transition from the cone or have I cut too deep already? What happens if the cut is too deep?

Can I use the 11 degree cutter to chamfer the chamber mouths for easier reloads when lacking the 82 degree cutter?

Or will I have to place a new order from Brownells with this? http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=2...CHAMFER_CUTTER




Last edited by WhistlerSWE; June 29th, 2010 at 03:10 AM.
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Old June 29th, 2010, 06:43 AM   #2
 
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dksac2: Thank you for your answer, but what you wrote more or less completely contradicts all that is written in the other threads regarding the same subject. No one else seem to trust the plug gauges, nor do they only use the 11 degree cutter when setting the barrel back or cutting new barrels.

More important than "Have I gone too deep?" is "What is the effect of going too deep?".

The 82 degree cutter is to be used for chamfering the chamber mouths, like I quoted.
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Old June 29th, 2010, 07:11 AM   #3
 
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WhistlerSWE, I think you're ok with what you have done. You can go a few more turns if you want to touch all lands. I have done all my guns and it only took a few turns to get to the lands.

The reason for not cutting too deep is that you can reduce the thickness of the end of the barrel which could lead to cracking. It would take a lot of cutting but I could see if someone is thinking more is better. I also do not think it is necessary to index you barrel. You would only need to do that if you shortened it and opened up your gap.
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Old June 29th, 2010, 02:55 PM   #4
 
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How deep is too deep? If the tips of the lands show signs of being cut, is that still acceptable? A friend did his and had that result. I wanted to do mine with his 11 degree tool, but it scares me to think of ruining a perfectly good gun.
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Old June 29th, 2010, 04:11 PM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye913 View Post
How deep is too deep? If the tips of the lands show signs of being cut, is that still acceptable? A friend did his and had that result. I wanted to do mine with his 11 degree tool, but it scares me to think of ruining a perfectly good gun.
Touching the lands is fine.
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Old June 29th, 2010, 05:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
You can go from an 18 degree to an 11 degree, but not from a 5 degree to an 11 degree without removing the barrel, cutting back the barrel shoulder and indexing it properly.
I don't see why this would be necessary. Your not cutting he face of forcing cone just the inside of it so the cylinder-bore gap would not change.
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Old June 29th, 2010, 07:14 PM   #7
 
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I'm just telling you what Brownells says about the 5 degree cutter.
It's possible that it may increase the space betweeen the bottom of the barrel and the cylinder if you cut too much with a facing cutter, so use it to only square the barrel. I'd call Rugers tech line and talk with them.
They know their tools and what they are designed to do.
I have not cut a 5 degree cone, only 18 degrees to 11 degrees with no problems.
I don't see where hitting the lands would be a problem. They say the 5 degree cuts a compound angle, so you will have to go deeper to get rid of the compound cut. This could cause the barrel end to be too thin.
If the end of the barrel is too thin, you run the risk of cracking it when firing hotter loads.
That would be my guess. Check with Brownells first, just because some have done it does not make it safe.
It may be OK, but check first.

John K

Last edited by dksac2; July 6th, 2010 at 03:52 PM.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 12:03 AM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dksac2 View Post
If the end of the barrel is too thin, you run the risk of cracking it when firing hotter loads.
Well that takes care of my worries at least; all my guns are for competition events where we are not allowed to fire magnum loads, only specials.

Doc45: Thank you for your comments, I was really concerned there for a while.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 09:58 AM   #9
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Ok, I'm confused. I thought that Rugers came with a 5 degree cone? I also thought you cut it to 11 degrees for shooting lead.
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Old June 30th, 2010, 10:16 AM   #10
 
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I woke up too tired today (bad Cold) and for whatever reason thought you were cutting the angle to the 5 degree to clean it up, I didn't look at the rest of the post again, my fault.
I called Brownells just to be sure there are no problens cutting the Ruger forcing cone to 11 degrees, the tech said you can end up with a compound angle, but it was OK to cut that angle out.
Just stop cutting as soon as the compound angle is gone, don't cut anymore than you have to.
He said you run the risk of splitting the forcing cone if you were to fire some real heavy .357 loads through it, but generaly it's not a problem.
One more tip, don't take heavy duty cold medicine and then try and post when you first get up. it just does not work out well.
You guys will be fine and end up with a more accurate revolver shooting lead rounds in the 11 degree cone.

Best Regards, John K
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Old June 30th, 2010, 10:21 AM   #11
 
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The 11 degree cutter will cut a compound angle, as soon as it's gone, stop right there.

John K
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye913 View Post
How deep is too deep? If the tips of the lands show signs of being cut, is that still acceptable? A friend did his and had that result. I wanted to do mine with his 11 degree tool, but it scares me to think of ruining a perfectly good gun.
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Old July 1st, 2010, 04:39 AM   #12
 
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Hi neighbor

The forcing cone has nothing to do with headspace on a revolver. Headspace is in cylinder.
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Old July 1st, 2010, 08:59 PM   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMD View Post
Ok, I'm confused. I thought that Rugers came with a 5 degree cone? I also thought you cut it to 11 degrees for shooting lead.
You're right, they do come from the factory with 5 deg. cone. The 11 deg. will help with lead build-up and will have little or no ill effect on jacketed bullets.
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 08:27 PM   #14
 
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Sorry, meant to say they could open up the gap too much between the end of the barrel the end of the cylinder if they use the facing cutter on the end of the barrel. The facing cutter come in the kit and sometimes people go too far when just trying to square the end of the barrel.
Headspacing is between the cartridge head (or HS guage) and the recoil shield on the back of the cylinder opening, it is not in the cylinder.
Thanks for the correction. I'm still feeling like crap and should not post when I'm out of it.
You are right, cone cutting has nothing to do with headspace.

Best Regards, John K
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrayw View Post
The forcing cone has nothing to do with headspace on a revolver. Headspace is in cylinder.

Last edited by dksac2; July 3rd, 2010 at 01:13 PM.
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Old July 4th, 2010, 04:37 AM   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dksac2 View Post
The 11 degree cutter will cut a compound angle, as soon as it's gone, stop right there.

John K
This is what I'm having problems with. I can't see any angles, nor can I see if my cut is a compound cut or if I'm already through.
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