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This is a discussion on Kahr Problems within the Gunsmithing forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Hey guys, I posted this on Glock Talk in the Kahr subforum the other day, figured I'd post it here too. P380 problem. Help? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ...


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Old June 14th, 2010, 07:30 PM   #1
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Kahr Problems

Hey guys, I posted this on Glock Talk in the Kahr subforum the other day, figured I'd post it here too.

P380 problem. Help?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I love my PM9. I had a few problems with it failing to return to battery due to premature slide lock when I was breaking it in. I'm not really sure if the problem was my thumb hitting slide stop or if the problem was w/ the gun itself, but the last couple hundred rounds have been great. I love, love, love the feel and accuracy of the PM9. I love it so much that I decided to get a P380. Well...

... off to a bad start. When I first got the gun I cleaned and lubed it, then manually racked the slide back and forth about 300 times to start the break in. Today was range day and I was excited. 1st round, slide locked back. 2nd round, slide locked back. 3rd round, slide locked back. It got better from there, but was still having premature lock about 5-10% of the time. Layed some round rounds through it and it's seemed to maintain about 5% the shots locking open w/ another round in the mag after 200 rounds. Way too much IMO.

I am 100% certain that it's not my thumb hitting the slide stop. I was very cautious of this and was way under the stop, there was absolutely no way I was hitting it but I kept having the problem.

Should I keep shooting or try some sort of repair? I must say that this is really frustrating for a gun nearly twice the cost of an LCP. It's even more frustrating that it's a rather common problem and it seems it's OK w/ Kahr to not address a known problem.

Any suggestions?



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Old June 14th, 2010, 07:31 PM   #2
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24 hours later and no responses, this is my next post. Do you guys think I'm on the right track?


---------------------------------------------

FWIW - here's what I've done so far in my quest to fix the problem.

1) Called Kahr, they're sending me a new slide stop spring. I don't think that's the problem since the one I have seems fine and the problem only exists while shooting.

ran out of patience (it's been a few hours) and...

2) angle cut and rounded the rear outside of the slide stop to be 110% sure there's no user error in the future. (I'm sure there wasn't during range time, but grip fundamentals can go out the window when SHTF - figure I'll give myself a little extra room for the thumb just in case)

3) filed down the inside of the slide stop portion that makes contact w/ the magazine follower. I took off the slide and reinstalled the slide stop (w/out the slide) so I could see what was going on in there. I think that the nose of some of the rounds were contacting the inside of the slide stop pushing it up. Clearance was very tight and I was able to easily duplicate the problem simply by having a round just slightly not fully seated in the back of the mag. We all know these mags reputations for not being the best and holding the rounds the way we'd like, so I could see one coming out slightly early from the back of the mag and causing this problem. Now, I shaved enough off where I don't think a round can cause this problem anymore, but was careful not too shave off too much so the follower still connects w/ the slide stop engaging it properly.

Now... is it the weekend yet??? Hopefully I'll report back with good news.

One other thing. I went ahead and did the same mods to my PM9 to be on the safe side since I initially had the problem w/ the PM9 before the break-in too. One thing I noticed is it looks like the slide stop spring on the PM9 is the same as the P380??? The P380 one doesn't seem to fit as well as on the PM9. When I get the new spring from Kahr I'll compare it to the two.
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Old June 14th, 2010, 08:02 PM   #3
 
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BB,
were you not able to send it back to Kahr for them to make repairs??

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeBlast View Post
24 hours later and no responses, this is my next post. Do you guys think I'm on the right track?


---------------------------------------------

FWIW - here's what I've done so far in my quest to fix the problem.

1) Called Kahr, they're sending me a new slide stop spring. I don't think that's the problem since the one I have seems fine and the problem only exists while shooting.

ran out of patience (it's been a few hours) and...

2) angle cut and rounded the rear outside of the slide stop to be 110% sure there's no user error in the future. (I'm sure there wasn't during range time, but grip fundamentals can go out the window when SHTF - figure I'll give myself a little extra room for the thumb just in case)

3) filed down the inside of the slide stop portion that makes contact w/ the magazine follower. I took off the slide and reinstalled the slide stop (w/out the slide) so I could see what was going on in there. I think that the nose of some of the rounds were contacting the inside of the slide stop pushing it up. Clearance was very tight and I was able to easily duplicate the problem simply by having a round just slightly not fully seated in the back of the mag. We all know these mags reputations for not being the best and holding the rounds the way we'd like, so I could see one coming out slightly early from the back of the mag and causing this problem. Now, I shaved enough off where I don't think a round can cause this problem anymore, but was careful not too shave off too much so the follower still connects w/ the slide stop engaging it properly.

Now... is it the weekend yet??? Hopefully I'll report back with good news.

One other thing. I went ahead and did the same mods to my PM9 to be on the safe side since I initially had the problem w/ the PM9 before the break-in too. One thing I noticed is it looks like the slide stop spring on the PM9 is the same as the P380??? The P380 one doesn't seem to fit as well as on the PM9. When I get the new spring from Kahr I'll compare it to the two.
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Old June 14th, 2010, 08:38 PM   #4
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Probably could have, but I don't feel like the hassle of shipping it, being without it, and waiting for it's return to see if they actually fixed the problem or not. As much as I like Kahr's guns, they're kind of an arrogant company and don't think there's any problems with people having the same issue. From what I've read with people having mostly misc minor Kahr problems, they send them in, a tech throws a few parts at it, fires a single magazine or less and puts it back in the box. Just don't feel like dealing with that when I can mod a $15 part in 15 minutes and probably fix it myself.

The accuracy, feel, and shootability of the guns are phenomenal. The whole reliability thing unfortunately could use some improvement. I think that both their strength and weakness is that they're built tight. Hopefully I only slightly loosened up a part that needed loosened. I really do anticipate them being flawless from here on out. The ONLY problem I've had with either gun has been the slide locking back and I think I remedied that. No FTFs, no FTE's, no light strikes, no stovepipes, and the best concealability and accuracy I've seen out of a gun in it's class.
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Old June 15th, 2010, 09:38 AM   #5
 
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Sorry i do not know the answer for the fix. But might try Kahr Talk KahrTalk Forums - Powered by vBulletin
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Old June 15th, 2010, 05:26 PM   #6
 
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I'm only guessing here, but since your PM9 started out he same way, I would think either a weak slide lock spring or you're inadvertently engaging the lock during recoil. Of course you know it shouldn't lock back because of the magazine unless it were empty. I have the P40 and P9 and I my empty mags don't engage the lock fully because the slide slams shut when I insert a full mag. It doesn't do it if I manually lock the slide back. I think it's a weakness in the design of the spring or lock or both.
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Old June 15th, 2010, 05:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by python357 View Post
I'm only guessing here, but since your PM9 started out he same way, I would think either a weak slide lock spring or you're inadvertently engaging the lock during recoil. Of course you know it shouldn't lock back because of the magazine unless it were empty. I have the P40 and P9 and I my empty mags don't engage the lock fully because the slide slams shut when I insert a full mag. It doesn't do it if I manually lock the slide back. I think it's a weakness in the design of the spring or lock or both.
I MAY have been hitting my thumb on the PM9 at first, but I'm 100% positive that I'm not w/ the P380. So, that makes me think I probably wasn't w/ the PM9 either but more of a design flaw... especially since I hear other people complaining of the same thing, but people just either say you're hitting it with our thumb, blame it on the ammo (which it partially is), or say it's just a good gun that needs broken in. If you're bored, take one of your Kahrs apart and do this:
Remove the slide, then take the slide stop and insert it into the receiver w/out the slide on. Then, insert a loaded mag and look and see how close the bullet noses come to hitting the lever that engages the slide stop. My rounds would actually graze that when I would insert a magazine. If a round wasn't seated perfectly in the mag, your could insert the mag and watch the round contact the lever and push the slide stop up. I filed down that lever so now there's some clearance from the bullet noses, but still enough to contact and fully engage the magazine follower. I'll follow-up w/ a range report this weekend.
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Old June 20th, 2010, 04:08 PM   #8
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Exclamation Range Report

Range Report

Well, I'm back from the range w/ mixed reviews.

1st off, the good news. PM9 is simply awesome. Laid over 200 rounds through it as fast as I could pull the trigger and it just laughed at me. The accuracy out of that little gun is phenomenal. I'm just an average shooter but that gun makes me look damn good. I'm not good enough to put 3 rounds in the same hole at 15' with a .22, but when I took my time and aimed I can do just that w/ the PM9 9mm. Sure, the holes are a little bigger w/ the 9mm vs a .22, but I was pretty damn shocked.
Now, it's not a target gun so most of my range time was spent emptying mags. Still, nothing off by more than just a few inches during rapid fire. I love, love, love this gun. It has replaced my G26.

Now for the somewhat bad news. But then again, it's somewhat good too. I wasn't as aggressive when removing metal from the slide stop on the P380 because I didn't want to go overboard. There's less metal there to begin with since the slide stop is smaller on the P380, so I didn't want to take too much off. The good part is the P380 is MUCH improved, but still not flawless. I had 3 lock backs out of 200 rounds. 1-2% failure rate vs 5-10%. I've just now made it to 400 rounds through the gun, so I really don't consider a good break in until 500 rounds. I'm going to smooth out what I did to the slide stop on the P380 and take just a little bit more off. I think that may fully correct the problem.
Based on it being 5 times more reliable than it was before, I'm pretty confident I did in fact find the problem and the solution. Plus, doing this seems to have fully remedied the PM9.

What bothers me is that I'm an average shooter w/ lots of gun experience but next to no gunsmith experience and I'm the one correcting this. Why the hell has Kahr not addressed this problem? I LOVE the guns, but they should come 'right' from the factory and not require tuned to make them function. From reading the posts at Glock Talk's Kahr subforum, I know I'm not the first one w/ this problem. In fact, it seems to be the #1 or 2 problem people discuss. People normally say it's user error and blame people for having a grip issue w/ their thumb hitting the overly large slide stop. I say BS. Sure that can be happening, but a combat type gun shouldn't be so picky on grip to begin with IMO.
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