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Finally, the Army Has Chosen a Pistol.

This is a discussion on Finally, the Army Has Chosen a Pistol. within the Gun Stories forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Don't mean to rant here - but let me continue my rant We could equip our entire armed services including reserves with a new handgun ...


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Old January 22nd, 2017, 08:58 AM   #46
 
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Don't mean to rant here - but let me continue my rant

We could equip our entire armed services including reserves with a new handgun every two years for less than our government spends on subsidies to Planned Parenthood today. Let that sink in...

Sorry couldn't stop myself

I'm thrilled that our executive branch is now occupied by accomplished business guys and accomplished military veterans rather than academics and career politicians.




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Old January 22nd, 2017, 09:32 AM   #47
 
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Originally Posted by aqualung View Post
what us manufacturer was able to field a pistol with the army's requirements? I think the only ones that could were ruger and s&w. Who else is there?

Take a rap, an equivalent s&w (i'm not up on the models), and any other us semi-auto that may meet the requirements (don't think there were any), and put them up against a sig and compare them, quality-wise...

I don't think they'll compare. I love my rugers and am very loyal to the brand, but they don't compare to a sig...

If the decision was made to suggest "second-best" due to political reasons, wouldn't there be some sort of backlash, when the intent is to provide the best tools for our soldiers?

It's what built our nation and what makes it great...captalism. Provide a superior product and meet the demand, or get skipped over by a supplier who does...foreign or domestic.

That being said, i do see your point and do agree with you that it's unfortunate.

Aqualung
so what is kimber ? A chump change 5th rate producer of junk ? Wtf !!!!!
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Old January 22nd, 2017, 09:46 AM   #48
 
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so what is kimber ? A chump change 5th rate producer of junk ? Wtf !!!!!
No need to be rude...

I thought of Kimber. They are a high-quality manufacturer. However, their bread and butter is the 1911-style pistol. The military made it clear they were beyond that style when they replaced it with the M9.

They also didn't submit for trials...can't win if you don't play...

Aqualung

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Old January 22nd, 2017, 10:04 AM   #49
 
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Originally Posted by Aqualung View Post
No need to be rude...

I thought of Kimber. They are a high-quality manufacturer. However, their bread and butter is the 1911-style pistol. The military made it clear they were beyond that style when they replaced it with the M9.

They also didn't submit for trials...can't win if you don't play...

Aqualung
I think Kimber is over-rated, a niche manufacturer making niche products. I doubt they would even think of trying to get a contract with the Military.
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Old January 22nd, 2017, 10:59 AM   #50
 
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I think Kimber is over-rated
Agreed.

They are well-made, but not worth all the hype and premium price.

Aqualung
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Old January 22nd, 2017, 12:02 PM   #51
 
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Originally Posted by Wheelygunner View Post
...There are probably more LEO's still carrying revolvers then 1911's.
In the past 20 years or so, I have not seen or have known an LEO, uniformed or plainclothes, who carries a revolver as their duty gun. Some do carry J-Frame style revolvers as back up guns, but not as primary on or off-duty sidearms. There are quite a few officers in my region that do carry 1911 style pistols.
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Old January 22nd, 2017, 12:27 PM   #52
 
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The plainclothes detail (part of the sheriff's dept.) that handles security at my county courthouse carries snubnosed S&W revolvers.
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Old January 22nd, 2017, 05:52 PM   #53
 
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Something that I feel like is being over looked, is, in my opinion, not a lot of companies put weapons in to the mix because they don't want to deal with the maintenance involved and the rap that the pistol will eventually have.

I carried an M9 overseas. It never once misfired, jammed, or malfunctioned. Now granted I am into guns, was older than a lot of people issued sidearms, and knew how to take care of it, and cleaned it regularly.

The Beretta 92FS (M9) has gotten a VERY bad rap from guys who have received ZERO handgun training prior to mediocre qualifications, using 30 year old pistol that have been terribly maintained for 29 of them. I own a M9 now, purchased it brand new and it is one of my BEST pistols. Accurate, smooth, never once malfunctioned....Would take it over just about anything in my safe.

It doesn't matter what the Army buys, if they don't train with or maintain those pistols they won't achieve any of their goals.
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Old January 22nd, 2017, 10:46 PM   #54
 
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Originally Posted by 2ndGen View Post
I carried an M9 overseas. It never once misfired, jammed, or malfunctioned. Now granted I am into guns, was older than a lot of people issued sidearms, and knew how to take care of it, and cleaned it regularly.

The Beretta 92FS (M9) has gotten a VERY bad rap from guys who have received ZERO handgun training prior to mediocre qualifications, using 30 year old pistol that have been terribly maintained for 29 of them. I own a M9 now, purchased it brand new and it is one of my BEST pistols. Accurate, smooth, never once malfunctioned....Would take it over just about anything in my safe.

It doesn't matter what the Army buys, if they don't train with or maintain those pistols they won't achieve any of their goals.
Well stated! I love the Beretta 92 series (don't own one yet, it's on my list and I've shot one many times), but mostly because I grew up watching it in the movies as a kid (Die Hard/Lethal Weapon). I really gained an appreciation for it when I discovered John Woo's Hong Kong action movies as an adult. It's such a pretty pistol. But people hate DA/SA pistols nowadays though for some reason, which is too bad. A more difficult system to learn, but a very safe and dependable system when used as intended. The transition from DA to SA just isn't something people want to get used to, and the manual safety/decocker confuses some folks as well. I love the 92/M9 and it's too bad they are abandoning it. It seems everyone just wants a striker fired polymer pistol with a constant trigger pull these days... I guess the military does now too.
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Old January 23rd, 2017, 04:29 AM   #55
 
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Originally Posted by Mogg2112 View Post
Well stated! I love the Beretta 92 series (don't own one yet, it's on my list and I've shot one many times), but mostly because I grew up watching it in the movies as a kid (Die Hard/Lethal Weapon). I really gained an appreciation for it when I discovered John Woo's Hong Kong action movies as an adult. It's such a pretty pistol. But people hate DA/SA pistols nowadays though for some reason, which is too bad. A more difficult system to learn, but a very safe and dependable system when used as intended. The transition from DA to SA just isn't something people want to get used to, and the manual safety/decocker confuses some folks as well. I love the 92/M9 and it's too bad they are abandoning it. It seems everyone just wants a striker fired polymer pistol with a constant trigger pull these days... I guess the military does now too.
And don't forget the lighter weight & fewer parts aspect of the polymer striker fired pistols.
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Old January 24th, 2017, 06:29 PM   #56
 
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I'm thrilled that our executive branch is now occupied by accomplished business guys and accomplished military veterans rather than academics and career politicians.
Your not the only one. For far too long the Washington politicians thought it was perfectly fine to appoint a harvard lawyer that never had a real job in his life to run the Department of Defense.

Thats just plain lunacy.

What we need IMO, is exactly what we got.

A tough as nails hard azz lifer military man who has been in the trenches.

I think/hope Mathis will change the DOD and how they do business for a long time to come.

Same with homeland security.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 04:36 AM   #57
 
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If i may add my own 2 cents why doesn't the Army ask for the soldiers input when their choosing a new service pistol, after all their going to be carrying it in combat, and they should have a say in what new service pistol is chosen.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 07:35 AM   #58
 
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If i may add my own 2 cents why doesn't the Army ask for the soldiers input when their choosing a new service pistol, after all their going to be carrying it in combat, and they should have a say in what new service pistol is chosen.
I would say they won't for the simple reason that not as many military guys are into guns as one would think. Most don't care, others are stuck in the 60's and want the .45 back, you would get a billion responses. I actually agree with the Army's criteria of having a manual safety, having DA/SA, and that it should not be a polymer frame.

But again, the biggest decision maker is in what manufacturers put forth a proposal.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 07:37 AM   #59
 
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And don't forget the lighter weight & fewer parts aspect of the polymer striker fired pistols.
When Soldiers are stepping outside the wire with 50lbs gear, and thats just your basic rifleman, a few ounces doesn't matter.
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Old April 3rd, 2017, 08:36 AM   #60
 
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Sig Sauer is manufactured in NH which last time I was there was still part of the USA. Jeeze.

SIG SAUER to Produce All Guns in US by 2015 - The Truth About Guns
Yes terry I agree with you, but guys are griping because Sig Sauer is a firearms company based out of Germany. I am glad that more jobs will be available here in the US because of the Army contract with Sig. Truth be known Sig Sauer makes some of the best semi-auto weapons out there!!! Looks like to me that Ruger & S&W just didn't have a pistol that would meet Army requirements like what Aqualung has stated!!! Some profits will go back over to Germany because of what I have mentioned but at least there are jobs being provided here. I can think of several car companies that are out of Japan, Korea, Germany, & France & possibly Italy that have auto plants here in the USA providing jobs here. So there is some good things here giving people a chance to provide for their family's. My thoughts are that Ruger & S&W & other US based firearms mfg needs to get some better designs out!!!
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