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Sighted Shooting vs. Point Shooting

This is a discussion on Sighted Shooting vs. Point Shooting within the CCW forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Great conversation. What are the group's thoughts about lasers?...


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View Poll Results: Sight Shooting or Point Shooting. How Do You Train?
Sight Shooting Only for Self Defense 28 10.85%
Point Shooting Only for Self Defense 18 6.98%
I Believe In & Practice Both 212 82.17%
Voters: 258. You may not vote on this poll

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Old February 8th, 2014, 07:11 AM   #31
 
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Lasers?

Great conversation. What are the group's thoughts about lasers?



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Old February 8th, 2014, 10:03 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesheep View Post
Great conversation. What are the group's thoughts about lasers?
I tired one on both an AR and G17.

For me personally(YMMV)..

99.9% of the time, a red dot will be faster. That's for both first AND follow up shots.

Anytime other then 'not physically being able to shoulder the rifle', a red dot is far superior.

It adds additional weight, bulk, and complexity to a given gun.

It can sometimes give away your position.

Hard to see in day light. If at all.

Something else to go wrong.

It 'is' better then irons in low light conditions.

'Might' be better for a new shooter(like my wife in a SHTF situation).

Personal conclusion: not a fan.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 12:21 PM   #33
 
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I voted for and practice both point shooting and sight shooting. My point shooting is at 10 yards while my sight shooting is anything beyond the 10 yards. I think it important to practice both. This is a good topic and the first time I have seen this mentioned. It is interesting to get other folks views on this subject. Thanks Buckjm53.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 01:58 PM   #34
 
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More on lasers

Thanks for the perspective HiPower. Here is my response to your very good points. Input from others would be greatly appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipower View Post
I tired one on both an AR and G17.

99.9% of the time, a red dot will be faster. That's for both first AND follow up shots.

Anytime other then 'not physically being able to shoulder the rifle', a red dot is far superior.
I was thinking more of pistols than long guns. It makes since that t red dot would be better than a laser on a rifle, but I have not tried a laser on a rifle. Why didn't you like a laser on your Glock?

Quote:
It adds additional weight, bulk, and complexity to a given gun.
Agreed. I had to train myself to turn on the rail mounted laser on my main carry pistol and opted for laser grips on my compact.

Quote:
It can sometimes give away your position.
Isn't this more true for green lasers? I guess you could see the red dot as well, but by then it would probably be to late for the bad guy

Quote:
Hard to see in day light. If at all.
The Crimson Trace products I have can be seen in bright Arizona daylight with sun glasses on. Maybe this is an issue for lesser quality gear.

Quote:
Something else to go wrong.
True

Quote:
It 'is' better then irons in low light conditions.
No doubt

[QUOTE['Might' be better for a new shooter(like my wife in a SHTF situation).[/QUOTE]

Why would that be?
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Old February 8th, 2014, 03:06 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesheep View Post
Thanks for the perspective HiPower. Here is my response to your very good points. Input from others would be greatly appreciated.



I was thinking more of pistols than long guns. It makes since that t red dot would be better than a laser on a rifle, but I have not tried a laser on a rifle. Why didn't you like a laser on your Glock?

Altho it would be somewhat better imo then a long gun, you still have to take a bit of time to trianglate the laser with the target. As opposed to just pulling the gun up-aim-shoot..which is still measurably faster.


Agreed. I had to train myself to turn on the rail mounted laser on my main carry pistol and opted for laser grips on my compact.


Yes. This would be ideal, all other factors the same.


Isn't this more true for green lasers? I guess you could see the red dot as well, but by then it would probably be to late for the bad guy

The red laser I have could still be somewhat seen under certain angles/circumstances.

The Crimson Trace products I have can be seen in bright Arizona daylight with sun glasses on. Maybe this is an issue for lesser quality gear.

Prolly. Mine was a cheapie($50-60ish maybe??).


True

--

No doubt

--

''Might' be better for a new shooter(like my wife in a SHTF situation).

Why would that be?

IMO, and especially in low light conditions, a very new shooter would possibly be more prone(intuitive maybe?) to use the laser more effectively then say, trying to still use irons and back lighting the target(by using a weapon light, hand held light, etc) or "point shooting" techniques (since they'll have basically zero muscle memory or eye/hand cordination). For awhile, I had my designated "wifes AR 11.5+5.5" XM177 setup"(she still doesn't even know that yet. baby steps) with the small laser I had. Was to be her poor mans low light setup.
Again. This is not the gospel. Just my observations. YMMV.
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Old February 8th, 2014, 06:49 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edslow View Post
I think this is a very good point. You probably wont have the time to get them in your sights.
As I see it, whether or not an individual would have time to get off a sighted shot would be wholly dependent upon the variables of the situation, including: Distance and number of assailants, speed of his/their approach, type of weaponry used (gun, knife, baseball bat, etc.), available light, available cover, etc. I can only say from my perspective and the results of my personal point shooting practice, there is definitely a noticeable speed advantage with point shooting. Will it make the difference in my survival in a SD situation ... I hope to never have to find out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesheep View Post
Great conversation. What are the group's thoughts about lasers?
While many love them, I personally am not interested in adding another attachment to my pistol and another variable that I have to think about.
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Old February 9th, 2014, 01:42 PM   #37
 
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Ambos creo.
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Old March 15th, 2014, 04:28 PM   #38
 
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I practice both to keep sharp at all ranges from point blank to 25+ yards. So far the Modified Weaver stance advocated and taught by Jeff Cooper and Gunsite has work best at all ranges for me. It helps get the bullet on target every time but one must focus on the target inside 10 yards and on the front sight beyond 10 yards to get accurate hits. Also, working on trigger control and consistency will help in high-stress situations. However, training under stressful conditions is what is really needed.
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Old March 15th, 2014, 05:07 PM   #39
 
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I train using only my sights. I can see using point shooting if the attacker is literally on top of me, but otherwise, Cooper, Ayoob, & Clint Smith have convinced me that sighted fire is the way to go. I like Clint's saying on the matter: "'He's so close I can't miss' should be changed to 'he's so close, I'd better NOT miss.'"
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Old April 22nd, 2014, 11:24 AM   #40
 
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always depends on the distance, and time permitted.
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Old May 21st, 2014, 07:17 AM   #41
 
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Yup, practice both on every range trip (weekly).

Bill
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Old June 1st, 2014, 10:54 AM   #42
 
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I read the Wiki article and I'm just gonna have to try the "point the first finger at the target and use the social finger for the trigger" trick next range visit.

I tried it dry firing my Colt Lawman for a few turns of the cylinder that way and it seems as if it might work for me.


Thanks, forum.

Nice to learn something new
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Old June 1st, 2014, 01:28 PM   #43
 
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I spend most of my shooting time using my sights, but once in a while I will get closer to my target and practice some drawing and double or triple taps. If I am "point-shooting", I usually use a standard B-27 target.
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Old June 1st, 2014, 04:42 PM   #44
 
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Don't know how I missed this thread, it is something I have wondered about. I practice point or instinct shooting at about 7 yards. From the high compressed position I pull the trigger as soon as my arms are extended. I was using the front sight at first, but found out I was more accurate just lining up the target (eight inches) with the top of the slide.

Still like to practice precision shots; sight alignment/picture, breathing, and an easy squeeze. Kind of relaxing, I guess.
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Old June 29th, 2014, 10:25 PM   #45
 
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Point shooting with both eyes open for defense

Sighted shooting with one eye for target

I like to practice both
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