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Open Carry Videos on Youtube. Your opinion???

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Old November 28th, 2013, 09:35 PM   #16
 
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Freedom isn't free. Somebody has to put it on the line.



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Old November 28th, 2013, 10:35 PM   #17
 
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And I'm offended that anyone would dare come on this forum and express their opinion. Oh wait, that's your right. Allow me to step aside while everyone says I shouldn't have the right to open carry a handgun, shotgun, or AR-15 through town. Now that the joking is over...

So what are some of the things about fighting? Bring a gun to a knife fight, bring a bigger gun than the other guy, use a handgun while you get to your long gun. Okay, so not perfect, but you get the point. So why not start with what is already deemed as a better fighting tool for your defense? And of course, always carry a backup weapon (hence the handgun on your hip).

But lets be real for a moment. Yes, there are some idiots on YouTube that give all firearm owners a bad name. I can't argue that, nor can I defend them. Next, it doesn't matter what level of law enforcement a person is, they too have laws they must follow in every situation. Just because they get a call about someone walking around with a firearm does not give them ANY right to stop, detain, search an individual. If you watch MarkedGuardian and some of the other videos of decent stops, you'll see Officers are stopping and talking to them, but they tell them they are free to go if they'd like but would still like to chat with them. During those chats though half the time the Officer is attempting to get the individual to say something that allows them to go ahead and detain, ID them, etc. That is why you see so many people "baiting" the police. They are tired of the police thinking they can do anything they want. the US Supreme Court has ruled in the people's favor over a lot of things the last 10+ years and it's time the police get off their butt and learn the laws.

I can tell you I've already talked with the brass at the local department about these laws and straight up asked them how I would be treated in these situations. I've been assured repeatedly they know the law and will not bother me if I am within my rights and follow the law. To this date, I've yet to have one negative occurance while open carrying. Granted, I open carry handgun only and don't go looking for trouble like some. But I won't be afraid to educate someone if they want to flip me crap about expressing my rights and freedoms that our soldiers have faught and died for, and that our law enforcement are to help protect.

Just my opinion though, one of many rights I choose to exercise.
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Old November 29th, 2013, 10:57 AM   #18
 
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Its all of our rights to be able to do this. No one on here said that it wasnt. What we did say was that if your sole purpose is to openly flaunt and use the open carry laws just for the purpose to agitate law enforcement and make youtube videos showing this your number one wrong, and number 2 making life very difficult for responsible citizens who carry with the purpose of defending themselves. Look your missing the point here. In almost all the cases the police were simply respsonding to calls from citizens that there was a person walking around making them feel uncomfortable. Last I checked the police are required to investigate when the public calls concerned for thier saftey. That is their job, to protect and serve. They have every right to ask questions pertaining to the reason why. Just like the person carrying has a right to explain that it is his right to do so. But there is a fine line when you go beyond doing it for the right reasons and the wrong reasons and most of the time the people making these videos have crossed well beyond that line into the realm of being people who draw attention unto themselves. Like I said, IM as big of a supporter of gun rights as any, I feel that if we as humans have certain rights, one is to be able to defend yourself against anyone who puts your life in danger. Just by using the word "bait", like you did above that word in its self proves that the only reason they are doing is to "bait" law enforcement, which again is just plain wrong. You say that we all have a right to do this where it is legal, well people also have the right to call the police if they feel they are in danger and the police in turn have every right to resond to these calls and question the person. And I have a right as an citizen openly carrying an AR-15 on my back to expect it may cause concern and I may get stopped and questioned by police. I can either be civil and say i understand peoples concern and give them my info to show them I am a law obiding citizen who is not a criminal, so I have the right. Or I can be a jackass and start reading off laws and mouthing off making life more difficult for the people simply trying to protect our streets. Most of the people poke the bees nest by being difficult in those videos. The police have no idea if you are a criminal (which it would be illegal to carry if you were) or a law obiding citizen. Once they investigate and find out you are not a criminal, then if they further press the issue you have every right to begin to be difficult. Its wrong as soon as they walk up to start giving them shit. Ill give you a little nugget to chew on. Imagine that you were in an area where open carry was legal. And as you and your family were leaving a store you came outside and saw 4 black males who had the appearance of "gang bangers" walking around with pistols strapped to their sides and rifles on their backs? What would you do? Would you just assume they were carrying out their 2nd amendment rights? Or would you become a little on edge and maybe alert police? And be honest here. Just like you know nothing about the people in this situation, the citizens know nothing about the person in the video doing it as well. The debate was never if it was ok to open carry. The debate was doing it quitely and not for the purpose of causing problems with law enforcement. Again, all i think they are doing is giving these idiot politicians who think all guns should be banned more fuel to show that people grossly abuse laws, which ruins it for everyone else who are responsible. We as the public who want these right need to be smarter about what we do if we want to convince others of our cause, not do things that shines the spotlight on us. Now thats my opinion

Last edited by jhope; November 29th, 2013 at 11:51 AM.
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Old November 29th, 2013, 11:20 AM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by mwnahas View Post
If open carry is legal where they are, the police need to tell the callers they are not breaking the laws. People need to learn not to panic just at the sight of a gun and mind their own business if no laws are being broken. Just my opinion. Saw some good videos but there are a lot of people just being jerks and just want a confrontation.
^^^+1
My thoughts exactly.
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Old November 29th, 2013, 11:26 AM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by MolonLabe View Post
^^^+1
My thoughts exactly.
But how do they know they are not breaking the law? What if the person carrying is a criminal? How do the cops or the citizens know if they are or arent? THey are breaking the law if they are carrying a firearm with a criminal record, right? The only way to know is to check. And I feel that being civil and showing your resonsible is giving them your info and showing them your not is the "right" and common sense" thing to do to not cause a scene. Then if they give you shit you can press the issue and talk about your rights. Again, criminals come in all shades and sizes. Just because you feel like you dont "fit the description" of a criminal doesnt mean others might not be concerned. Again, imagine if there were a bunch of black males with baggy clothes on with guns openly carrying. Would the citizens have a right you think to be concerned and would the cops have a right to investigate and make sure they were law obiding citizens?

Last edited by jhope; November 29th, 2013 at 11:48 AM.
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Old November 29th, 2013, 11:47 AM   #21
 
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Originally Posted by jhope View Post
I was skimming through youtube a few days ago and I came across several videos that I find to be quite frankly disturbing. They videos consist of several people walking around crowded streets in cities and towns throughout the country to test law enforcement on the open carry right. In most of the videos the people are walking around with loaded AR-15's or other assault rifles and they wait until the police approach them and start filming to show they are exercising their 2nd Amendment rights. Most result in heated arguments with law enforcement and the people filming testing the police and going on and on about their rights. Most of the time I find the police to be responding to calls from citizens and to make sure that the person is not some nut that is going to shoot up the streets. But the people making the video think that just by the police questioning them that somehow they are being discriminated against and begin to cause a scene in public. So here's the question. Do you think the people in the video are in the right or are they grossly abusing the open carry right just to create confrontation. I personally find the people in these videos flat wrong and they are just doing it to agitate law enforcement. While I am a huge proponent of the right to carry and even open carry where it is allowed I am not a fan of people walking around with assault rifles in large groups of people just for the sole purpose of stirring up trouble. It makes people uncomfortable and the open carry laws were not intended to have this effect. It was for decent people to be able to carry in public, not walk around just looking for trouble so you can film it. I find people like this further damage CC laws and give good honest people who carry for the sole purpose of protection a bad rap. So whats your opinion if you have seen these videos? Exercising 2nd amendment rights? Or just plain causing unnecessary problems in public for citizens and law enforcement?
I've seen some of these videos & they're clearly abusing their right to carry in an ignorant manner, plain and simple. They weren't carrying rifles for SD. They did it to look like a bunch of D-bags to prove their point? Trying to scare or piss people off won't get their support or sway their beliefs. IMO most people simply need to be educated about gun laws.

A few years ago I worked at a hardware store & one day a customer I knew walked in & he had a pistol holstered on his hip. No big deal. A woman that had just been hired freaked when she saw his pistol & ran to the office, locked herself in, & called 911 to report "a man in the store with a gun". A few minutes later the police showed up & we explained what happened & all was well. The woman that freaked out was so shaken up that she asked for the rest of the day off & went home. (I guess to hug her family & thank God the evil plumber didn't attack her. ) IMO that's a good example of how sheepish people's mind's work & walking around with ARs strapped to your back at McDonald's isn't the best way to convince them that gun owners aren't the enemy.
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Old November 29th, 2013, 11:58 AM   #22
 
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We as the public who want these rights and feel it is our right need to be smarter about what we do if we want to convince others of our cause, not do things that shines the spotlight on us and further drives the wedge between the right and left. If our goal is truely to give everyone this right and understand the reason and the need for it, it needs to be done smarter.
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Old November 29th, 2013, 12:30 PM   #23
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhope View Post
But how do they know they are not breaking the law? What if the person carrying is a criminal? How do the cops or the citizens know if they are or arent? THey are breaking the law if they are carrying a firearm with a criminal record, right? The only way to know is to check. And I feel that being civil and showing your resonsible is giving them your info and showing them your not is the "right" and common sense" thing to do to not cause a scene. Then if they give you shit you can press the issue and talk about your rights. Again, criminals come in all shades and sizes. Just because you feel like you dont "fit the description" of a criminal doesnt mean others might not be concerned. Again, imagine if there were a bunch of black males with baggy clothes on with guns openly carrying. Would the citizens have a right you think to be concerned and would the cops have a right to investigate and make sure they were law obiding citizens?
Listen I am in no way condoning not giving LEOs respect and complying as any law abiding citizen should.
I simply believe that if it is state law that I am allowed to open carry with out a license, the simple act of a police officer seeing you or a "concerned citizen" calling and reporting that some one has a firearm does not legally allow you to be detained or searched.
For this to be legal, the officers need probable cause. Performing a lawful activity(assuming it is legal where you are) is not probable cause. Was he brandishing or threatening anyone? Was he being reckless? Was he breaking any laws? If the answers to these questions are no then there is no probable cause. These should be the questions a dispatcher asks to the caller saying there is a man with a gun. Why waste valuble taxpayer dollars on resources to go investigate someone who is not breaking any laws.
I agree some of the people in the videos are idiots and make every one else look bad.
If you are approached by an officer be polite, respectful and comply with all of his commands and ask for your lawyer and handle it in court.
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Old November 29th, 2013, 12:45 PM   #24
 
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A police agent needs "reasonable suspicion" that a law has been broken, is being broken or is about to be broken in order to make a "Terry Stop" (that is what these stops are called.) No one has a duty to prove they are not a criminal; the government has that burden. If a police agent dose not posses that information, he/she has no business stopping you.

Otherwise your "right" means nothing.


edit:

Stop= reasonable suspicion

Arrest= probable cause.

Sometimes I carry in plain view (open carry); it is legal in my state. If a policeman/woman violated my rights, I would at the very least notify his/her top LEO. If I felt their behavior was abusive, I would not hesitate to take the department to court. If his/her behavior was very abusive I would take him/her to court as well. Rights are rights; they mean something.

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Old November 29th, 2013, 12:53 PM   #25
 
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I dont recall in any of the videos the people are being "detained", just being questioned to make sure everything is kosher. The person is always free to leave instead of sit there and argue. But that wouldnt make for a good youtube video would it. If they didnt start a long drawn out debate with the cops. In fact it would be boring. Which again, goes back to the original point. They do it to agitate, not because they are trying to defend themselves.
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Old November 29th, 2013, 01:02 PM   #26
 
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Damn creampuff....great point thou. Thats the most logical response on the reasoning why it is wrong to just stop them anyone has made. Makes sense. I still think most in the videos have the wrong intentions and go about it the wrong way thou. Again, in order for the gun community to really start to rally those opposed to us we need to be smart and responsible and not drawn unwanted attention to us thou, which again, i feel the people in most of the videos are doing and only have that purpose in mind. I agree whole heartedly with your points. But you also have to agree that crossing lines and although upholding the rights, doing so in an agressive and very loud manner does not help out the cause, it just gives dipshits like Hillary Clinton and Diane Finestein more fuel to say that the gun laws in this country are causing irreponsible actions. Do I feel there are times and places to stand up and fight for rights and even do so in a loud manner, hell yes. Do i feel the people are going about it in the right way in most of the youtube videos, hell no. I feel we should have the right to open carry, just not abusing it for the cause of the social media. Thats the wrong kind of attention

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Old November 29th, 2013, 03:00 PM   #27
 
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I'm of the opinion that these videos are devices of some of the nefarious anti-gun groups. They are intended to be exactly what they appear to be. Law abiding folks generally don't have a desire to "bait" the LEOs and risk giving the left more ammunition. I carry openly, sometimes, but certainly not where I think it will wart the cops. I'm trying to make their jobs easier, not more difficult by becoming part of the problem. I may have the right to open-carry anytime, but I personally decline in giving anybody cause-to-pause by being that obvious. I say, "anybody," but if I can give a libtard indigestion, then I will ! !
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Old November 29th, 2013, 03:50 PM   #28
 
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Difficult Topic......why would someone want to taunt the local/state police to prove a point. Yet they do.

On the other hand..... why would the police not know the laws regarding carrying a firearm when it's legal. Yet they don't.

Pandemonium is rampant when people see an individual has a gun in their possession.

I was watching some of those videos on Wednesday where 3 young women were in Walmart open carrying in a state (Arkansas I think) that's legal to open carry. The police were called & tried to figure out what was going on. There was no sign on the entry doors stating "No Firearms Allowed". The manager didn't want them in the store. Walmart policy didn't state anything about firearms.

A bystander stopped & wanted to give his opinion. He was against carrying a firearm in public. Police asked him to move on.
It shows that the citizens don't know the laws of their own state. They may not like them, but it is the law. Just like other laws, not all people know them or use them!!!!

Many of those videos have links to other confrontations, whether its DUI check points or open carry to go fishing. They seem to want to inform people of their rights, but definitely want them to "push the envelope" to show them how far they can go to do it.

I prefer to conceal carry here in Florida. No need for me to showcase my firearm.
We're allowed to carry a loaded firearm in a rug, case, thumb strapped holster in a glove box or closed console without having a Concealed Weapons or Firearms License.
It's the law!!!

My opinion for little it's worth
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Old November 29th, 2013, 03:56 PM   #29
 
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Originally Posted by LeMat View Post


I like seeing people exercising their 2d Amendment right in a responsible manner.

I don't like seeing it done in a juvenile manner. I find the "in your face" folks childish.

The reason to carry a firearm is to defend oneself, simple as that.
I agree. Testing law enforcement patience isn't a good thing. I carry (concealed legally) a lot and no one ever knows.
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Old December 3rd, 2013, 01:26 AM   #30
 
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Most of the videos I've seen the guy with the gun is always asking to go and the LEO is telling him to stay and give up his ID.

We all want our rights.....but let the other guy stand up for them?

I prefer to see these guys put the long guns down and just carry pistol openly. What LEO need to tell "concerned" citizens is that we have that right to carry openly if the statues so state. I carry open when I'm returning from shooting out in the desert and stop for a soda or gas and have never had any problems other than other shooters wanting to know more about open carry and what my pistol model is and caliber. Some of the larger stores in our area like the open carry as from my conversation with one of the department managers. I agree. There are associations in our city for open carry and they meet at different gun friendly restaurants with their families once a month.

Most of the time I carry concealed but do not think twice about wearing my OWB rig when going into a store.

I'm getting tired of people being OOOOOFFFFFEEEEEENNNNNNDDDDDEEEEDDDD by the sight of a gun. If you are offended take a pill.
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