600 Ohio CCW Permits Obtained IllegalyThis is a discussion on 600 Ohio CCW Permits Obtained Illegaly within the CCW forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; What a great idea ... Two guys buying training certificates from a bonehead certified instructor and then conducting illegal training classes and issuing the fraudulent ...
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August 11th, 2012, 04:22 AM
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#1 | | Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 9,425
| 600 Ohio CCW Permits Obtained Illegaly
What a great idea  ... Two guys buying training certificates from a bonehead certified instructor and then conducting illegal training classes and issuing the fraudulent certificates to more than 600 Columbus Ohio area CCW students (some were apparently sold with no training at all)  . While I would personally love to see Ohio eliminate the permit requirement to carry, I hate to see anyone scam the current system as it only plays into the "Anti Argument" Quote:
COLUMBUS, Ohio --
Three people are facing charges, accused of helping falsify permits to carry a concealed weapon.
According to Franklin County Sheriff Zach Scott, an undercover investigation began in April 2012 into the issuance of fraudulent training certificates to obtain a CCW permit.
The sheriff's office said that through the investigation, it was determined that three people were allegedly involved in the permit scheme.
It is alleged that 62-year-old John Michael Marshall, a certified firearm instructor, was selling his signed training certificates to 41-year-old Adam Chaykin and 48-year-old Ken Fouch, who were allegedly conducting illegal training classes, which fell far short from the required training.
Investigators said that in some cases, no training occurred.
The suspects are charged with complicity to falsification to obtain a CCW permit.
In June 2012, evidence was obtained from search warrants at the suspects' homes ...... (see link below for complete story)
| Investigation Reveals More Than 600 Invalid CCW Permits | NBC 4i
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August 11th, 2012, 04:45 AM
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#2 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Maine
Posts: 4,461
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Seems to me that those that knowingly, or even unknowingly since ignorance is not an excuse, got these w/o the required training should be held accountable (fraud?) as well.
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August 11th, 2012, 04:56 AM
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#3 | | Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 9,425
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Originally Posted by BlkHawk73  Seems to me that those that knowingly, or even unknowingly since ignorance is not an excuse, got these w/o the required training should be held accountable (fraud?) as well. | I agree, as each person applying for the Ohio CCW permit states on the application (under penalty of perjury) that they have completed all required training. I have no sympathy for them.
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August 11th, 2012, 04:59 AM
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#4 | | Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NH, USA.
Posts: 10,303
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Just eliminate the training requirement.
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August 11th, 2012, 06:40 AM
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#5 |
Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: OH
Posts: 296
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The really bad part is Im sure out of 600 people there were some that thought they were getting the permit the right way. As for the ones that knew they were not, they just make us all look bad.
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August 11th, 2012, 07:48 AM
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#6 |
Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,438
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Shame. Just fuel for the antis fire. I know all my buddies have done it the right way. Sucks when its in your home town to.
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August 11th, 2012, 08:31 AM
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#7 | | Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 9,425
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Originally Posted by terry_p Just eliminate the training requirement. | Terry ... I'm with you 100% and there is movement in Ohio towards that end. However in the interim, people have got to do it the right way.
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August 11th, 2012, 08:36 AM
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#8 |
Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,438
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Dont intend to hijack the thread but.....
Whats the best ohio based forum for firearms in your opinion Buck?
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August 11th, 2012, 08:56 AM
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#9 | | Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 9,425
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Originally Posted by Dsteele Dont intend to hijack the thread but.....
Whats the best ohio based forum for firearms in your opinion Buck? | DS ... I frequent both OFCC (Ohioans for Concealed Carry) and Buckeye Firearms Association. While compared to here I don't post a great deal on either one, both are loaded with great Ohio related firearms info.
Last edited by BuckJM53; August 11th, 2012 at 09:02 AM.
Reason: Speeeeling
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August 11th, 2012, 10:00 AM
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#10 |
Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Franklin TN
Posts: 1,257
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Just do as Vermont and Alaska and recognize the right of constitutional carry. Problem solved.
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August 11th, 2012, 10:04 AM
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#11 |
Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,438
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Its what we want. It just takes time to get to that.
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August 11th, 2012, 10:11 AM
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#12 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Maine
Posts: 4,461
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Originally Posted by terry_p Just eliminate the training requirement. | Ahh, I'd disagree with that! Would you really want anyone and everyone to be able to wander around armed? No denying that not everyone should own a firearm let alone walk around with one. I myself feel the minimal courses are pretty darn minimal and should be more involved, more in depth and more encompassing. It'll certainly weed out those that want one just for the bragging rights and for the ego boost.
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August 11th, 2012, 12:08 PM
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#13 |
Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Washington State
Posts: 18,962
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Originally Posted by BlkHawk73 Ahh, I'd disagree with that! Would you really want anyone and everyone to be able to wander around armed? No denying that not everyone should own a firearm let alone walk around with one. I myself feel the minimal courses are pretty darn minimal and should be more involved, more in depth and more encompassing. It'll certainly weed out those that want one just for the bragging rights and for the ego boost. | Maybe we should also train people on the 1st before they can speak.  | |
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August 12th, 2012, 09:30 AM
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#14 |
Join Date: May 2011 Location: Michigan
Posts: 197
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First of all, what ever sentence they get, it won't be enough IMO. It's impossible to calculate the collateral damage that will be caused by what they did.
Secondly, I find it difficult to believe that the majority of the 600 didn't know something was fishy. I'm not saying they are bad people at all, it's just that most people have a sense when something's not quite right & the dumbos who did run a class wouldn't have a clue about how to do it. Regarding the people who just bought a certificate, they need to be prosecuted to the max. because there's no doubt about the fact they knew it was wrong.
I don't live in Ohio so I don't know how big an inconvenience it is to qualify for a CPL but I do agree with doing safety training. I can't fathom a state just issuing a CPL to anyone who qualifies with no safety training at all. Just a small example, how would a person who buys a hand gun, with no training, be aware that if they buy a holster for it, the holster should cover the trigger guard on the gun? How would they know?
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August 12th, 2012, 11:54 AM
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#15 | | Previously Interested
Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Trapped in a horde of stupid people
Posts: 4,407
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I didn't have to prove I knew anything about a handgun before I got my CCW. VA took a 33 year old DD214 in lieu of training course. Of course, VA also accepts one of several online courses as "training". Maybe a little too easy here......... 
I have no problem with someone having to show they have the essential safety knowledge for firearms. Some people probably think you look through the bore to aim a gun. Of course, their first shot would remove them from the gene pool.
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