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primary self defense ccw caliber

This is a discussion on primary self defense ccw caliber within the CCW forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Originally Posted by Average Joe I think the reason why the 9x19 is so controversial is because it's right on the cusp, between so-so and ...


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View Poll Results: primary self-defense caliber
22 rimfire/25 acp 34 1.14%
.32 caliber (any) 29 0.97%
.380 acp 234 7.84%
9mm 1,033 34.61%
38 spl 342 11.46%
357 mag 439 14.71%
40 s&w 339 11.36%
other 42 1.41%
44 spl 27 0.90%
45 colt/acp 466 15.61%
Voters: 2985. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 21st, 2008, 06:57 PM   #106
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Average Joe View Post
I think the reason why the 9x19 is so controversial is because it's right on the cusp, between so-so and substantial. With the ball rounds going only 1100 fps, it's nominal. With a good 124 gr. HP @ closer to 1300, it's as good a chance as you get with a pistol.
I think this is a very key statement - the 9mm is a caliber that is very dependent on load for its effectiveness -- unlike the .45, for example. I think the same principle holds true and even moreso for the 9mm short, or .380.

It all boils down to what you are comfortable with. I have a great deal of confidence in 125 gr Federal Hydra Shoks, and would feel less certain that a 9mm would get the job done, so that is what I carry. If I want a lighter smaller gun to carry, I skip over the 9 and go all the way down to a .380, loaded with the heaviest loads I can find - usually the Cor Bon DPX, Speer Gold Dots, or PowrBalls.




Last edited by argyle; November 21st, 2008 at 07:02 PM.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 01:07 PM   #107
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaz View Post
Does everyone think that a .380 is not effective .
I used to be a big fan of the .45 ACP and the .44 Spl. That was before the birth of the .40 S&W, which is now my favorite. HOWEVER, I find I am most often carrying [Oh Shame] a Kel-Tec P3AT in .380 ACP. I guess I would have to say my "always gun" is a .380, while my "sometimes gun" is a .40 S&W. The .380 may not be as effective as the .40, but it can be effective enough.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 01:26 PM   #108
 
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Originally Posted by GuT_PiLe View Post
another vote for the .357
.357 ends the debate between 9mm and .45
Why is that may I ask? I rather thought that the .40 S&W should have ended that debate, but then I'm one of those who think that the .357 125-gr. load is too much of a lightweight for the heavyweight targets.
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Old November 26th, 2008, 04:55 AM   #109
 
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It's all good

9mm

Related story: There is an inmate where I work who was shot in the chest through a glass door with a 9mm.

Now granted he's still alive, but he walks funny (spinal damage) and sometimes loses control of his bowels (again spinal damage) in short he got pretty jacked up, and according to him it pretty much deterred him from his primary objective (breaking & entering) Mission accomplished!........ plus he's doing 8 to 10.

I'm still thinking of switching to the M&P 40, but I believe a 9mm is adequate.



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Old November 26th, 2008, 08:55 AM   #110
 
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Now granted he's still alive, but he walks funny and sometimes loses control of his bowels

SOUNDS LIKE MY GREAT UNCLE WHO IS 98
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Old November 26th, 2008, 08:01 PM   #111
 
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Ballistic Gelatin?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlangton View Post
Because it IS an effective caliber. Even a so-called "Firearms authority" can be wrong from time to time. Tests in ballistics gelatin show that even the "almighty" .45ACP doesn't penetrate much different than a .380 or 9x19-even with 2-4 layers of denim simulating heavy clothing.
JL
Ballistic gelatin is not flesh, does not have nerve endings. Check the compiled statistics of Marshall and Sanow - real shootings, real bullets, real people.

The .380 is not bad. .357 Magnum Winchester silvertips do much better than the 380. .45 ACP Silvertips do better than the .357. .380 in the same bullet construction generally does not have the velocity to both penetrate and to expand.

As a believer in the "Big Bullet Doctrine" I would prefer the .480 Ruger soft point 400 grain loaded down to 800-850 fps. Or consider the 500 S&W.

Let me put it this way, Load a 380 100 grain slug to a typical energy level and a 480 Ruger or 500 Smith with a 350 grain slug to the same energy level and compare what it does to a person wearing body armor or even a heavy leather jacket. (Disclaimer: This does not have the weight of statistics, only my conjecture, uet.)

If I had nothing else, a .380 is fine, but 9mm is better by nineteen over eighteen and 357 even more so.

Just my opinion.

Remember, believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for what you get from the internet.

Thanks for reading.

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Last edited by Lost Sheep; November 26th, 2008 at 08:06 PM.
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Old November 27th, 2008, 12:31 PM   #112
 
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Originally Posted by deputy125 View Post


Could very well be be.

Figured there are so many mouse guns out there that some folks are bound to be carrying an old beretta jetfire or baby browning still as a primary.

There was some serious talk a few years back that the 17 hmr would make a fine SD weapon. Taurus sure jumped on the bandwagon and built a lot of snubs in it---going for cheap at cdnn ----rekon it didn't catch on....

Anyone care to predict a winner? I'll stick my neck out and say the majority will be the 38 spl.
Don't think so. One of your wise USA citizens once said "I carry a .45 because I can't find a .54" Fact is, the bigger the bullet the less accuracy you need.

My Grandpa said; " It doesn't matter so much what you shoot him with as where you shoot him." He was right, only when the chips are down you haven't got much time to aim.

I carry a Browning HP in 9mm para 'cause I've got small hands. Otherwise my choice would have been a Desert Eagle in .44 magnum. Now, fortunately, I've got a reason to practice often to be accurate.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 09:48 AM   #113
 
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I also carry a .357 in a 3" SP101 complimented by Golden Sabres.
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Old November 29th, 2008, 01:12 PM   #114
 
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Warm weather = .380

Now that it is cooler = .40S&W
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 04:17 PM   #115
 
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I voted 45, IIRC (that was a while back). But that was based on only having one choice. In truth, 45 during late-fall, winter, early-spring, and 9mm during late-spring, summer, early-fall. For now. I'm strongly leaning toward the 357 year-round. The primary reason I don't already is I have good concealment holsters for both the 45 and 9, but crap for the SP101. It is just about impossible, it seems, to find a good low-profile, OWB concealment holster for the 3 1/16" SP101, which is a cryin' shame. It could likely take the place of both the others on my hip, except for want of a decent da** holster. Actually, I should say, a decent concealment holster that doesn't have to be custom ordered and wait forever for delivery.

So I guess for the near future, it will continue to be the 45/9 combo.
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 05:13 PM   #116
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogboy View Post
I voted 45, IIRC (that was a while back). But that was based on only having one choice. In truth, 45 during late-fall, winter, early-spring, and 9mm during late-spring, summer, early-fall. For now. I'm strongly leaning toward the 357 year-round. The primary reason I don't already is I have good concealment holsters for both the 45 and 9, but crap for the SP101. It is just about impossible, it seems, to find a good low-profile, OWB concealment holster for the 3 1/16" SP101, which is a cryin' shame. It could likely take the place of both the others on my hip, except for want of a decent da** holster. Actually, I should say, a decent concealment holster that doesn't have to be custom ordered and wait forever for delivery.

So I guess for the near future, it will continue to be the 45/9 combo.
Don Hume has a nice selection -
http://www.donhume.com/index.php?mai...ath=67_358_183
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Old December 2nd, 2008, 07:03 PM   #117
 
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Originally Posted by argyle View Post
Ehhhh..... not so much.

J.I.T.: Got it. Works, but not overwhelmed with it. Leather is thin enough that I do not feel it holds the gun securely without a thumb snap, considering that the 3 1/16" version is actually made for the 2 1/4, but since it is an open muzzle, slide, design, it can be used. But there's a whole lotta barrel sticking out to snag on stuff.

H721 O.T.: Nice! But even though it is listed on the 3 1/16" SP101 page, when you open that model to look at ordering it, it is not available for the 3 1/16". Only 2 1/4". I GUESS it is open-muzzle enough that it could work with a 3 1/16", but then I'm essentially back to the J.I.T.

H721: Same story as the 721 O.T., except at least it has a retaining strap now.

H720 O.T.: Same story as 721 O.T., and no retaining strap.

H720: Same story, but at least with a retaining strap.

So, the only options are the H721 or the H720, with retaining straps. And that is just hoping that the muzzles of the holsters are actually open and they will let the barrel poke through.

I'm really just biding my time to order something from EP Saddlery. Well, not biding my time... more like saving my money.

By the way, thanks for trying to help.
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Old December 3rd, 2008, 03:44 AM   #118
 
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Remember it all comes down to training. You shoot and react in stressfull situations the way you train. So whatever you decide to carry make sure you have as much training with that firearm as possible.
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Old December 9th, 2008, 05:56 PM   #119
 
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Primary self defense ccw caliber

Mine is the 380 house inside my little LCP.
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Old December 11th, 2008, 06:59 PM   #120
 
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I voted .357 mag, but I also carry 45ACP (G36)
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