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Open Carry Vs. Concealed

This is a discussion on Open Carry Vs. Concealed within the CCW forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; I didn't vote. I only carry openly when I need a rifle or large sidearm when hiking or hunting, and for daily peace of mind ...


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View Poll Results: Concealed vs. Open carry
I feel concealed carry is wrong, we should exercise our rights openly 10 2.12%
I support open carry, but conceal most of the time. 231 49.04%
My state doesn't allow open carry 50 10.62%
I think open carry presents more liabilities than benefits, but shouldn't be illegal 146 31.00%
I think open carry advocates hurt gunowners by picking a fight we already won 34 7.22%
Voters: 471. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 23rd, 2010, 06:10 PM   #46
 
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I didn't vote. I only carry openly when I need a rifle or large sidearm when hiking or hunting, and for daily peace of mind I prefer concealed carry so I can blend in.

I don't have any points to make, beef to chew, or a chip on my shoulder when it comes to OC/CC. It's mainly a practicality thing to me. Big, openly carried guns are fun when called for, but compact & light handguns are fun too.



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Old November 23rd, 2010, 07:04 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapache View Post
I was going to just read and keep my mouth shut, but this is too much.

I am a retired LEO. I carried a gun openly in both uniform or plain clothes for over twenty years. Living in Texas, I am now forced to carry concealed rather than in the open, because that is all the law will allow. Carrying concealed means that the gun's shape cannot print and reveal it's presence or I am in violation of the law. So, I carry in a fanny pack that screams "Gun!", but it doesn't print. so I'm legal. Everyone knows that the pack contains a gun, but I like it that way.

I would rather carry openly because I firmly believe in carrying enough gun, and that means a full size .40 S&W or better yet a .45 ACP, not only because of the knockdown capacity, but also the accuracy at longer ranges. Also, I have had a lot of training and an immeasureable amount of practice, which I continue to this day. I can draw and lay down accurate fire from an open carry holster in about 1/6th the time it takes to draw from true concealment. Concealed carry is a huge detriment to rapid reaction and deployment of a weapon under life threatening conditions


The reference to cops being disarmed is a lame comparison to a non LEO carrying by any means. Cops are disarmed and killed with their own weapons because they are actively CONFRONTING people that they either know or suspect to be engaged in illegal behaviour. This means chasing them down, tackling, them and placing them in handcuffs. Most if not all these perps would have rather walked away without even being noticed by the officer, but they fight to avoid going back to jail. I know. I've had to fight like !@#$ to keep my gun, and it was because I was arresting a fellow, who did not want to go back to jail again.

The average citizen is not going to be confronting these folks and presenting them with the prospect of arrest. Whether a person openly carries a weapon or not, the "Predators" are going to size you up, and most of the time, if you are carrying openly they are going to see the gun and wait for an unarmed "Grazer", (No Fangs) who will be an easy mark. They are smart enough to know that dying in order to effect a robbery is not as noble as dying for Mom, Country, or Apple Pie.


If Texas allowed open carry, I'd certainly do it.
I'm sure you heard about the nut that killed 4 officers here.
I'm sure he saw their firearms, but he didn't care.
And they wern't actively CONFRONTING this individual at all.
I would think that a nut case bent on evil would eliminate the precieved threat first, including innocent civilians who happen to be openly carrying.
That disply may avoid a confrontation altogether, but as this tragedy clearly shows, that is not always the case.
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Old November 23rd, 2010, 09:08 PM   #48
 
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i never have OC'd i am more comfortable CCing. i support OCing, but i prefer the more "concealed" style ,i dont wanna give away the element of surprise.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 01:18 AM   #49
 
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Okay, gentlemen, I accept some of your arguments. You don't want to alarm anyone so you keep it out of site in deference to their feelings. Alrught.

WHY? Why should your safety take second place to their feelings. Has it ever occurred to you that the extra time it takes to get to your weapon could prove the difference between life and death? But that's okay, right? At least you will have died not offending anyone.

Ask yourself, too, WHY are people alarmed when they see an openly carried handgun? The answer is threefold: Mainstream Media, Hollywood, and Anti-gunners. All three have demonized guns to the point that the guns themselves are considered evil. In an attempt to "avoid all appearance of evil" as it says in the Bible, gun owners have chosen to conceal their weapons. This means people aren't used to seeing guns anymore. One of the aims of the open carry movement is to normalize the presence of guns in society. We've done that to the point that there are really very few incidents anymore. The law is on our side nearly everywhere and we learn, know and use that law. We've changed the way police departments operate all around the country, mostly through cooperation and education. We've forced cities to change city ordinances to conform with state law. We are probably one of the most active grassroots movements in the country and much of what we do actually affects the rights of ALL citizens.

People say they have the right to feel safe. I'll agree. Everyone has the right to lie to themselves as much as they want. I say my right to BE safe trumps their feelings. OC, as a visible deterrent, does the job for me.

As for the "it makes you a target" comment, Interviews with convicted felons have shown that the vast majority of BGs will not take a chance on being hurt or killed where they know a hazard exists. As a matter of fact, there is a documented instance where a potential robber and his cohorts decided not to rob a Waffle House in Kennesaw, GA PRECISELY because they saw a couple of customers openly carrying handguns. Concealed carry wouldn't have done that. The place would most likely have been robbed and someone hurt or killed.

Something to chew on: If they can't see your gun and don't know it's there BGs are more likely to commit a crime in your presence. If your main goal is to AVOID bad situations, such as armed robbery, you've just failed.

All that being said, I recognize that there are times when Concealed Carry rules the day. When I went to my coworkers wedding I concealed. During the winter I mostly conceal, just because I'm not going to shun a coat in order to show off my gun. That's ludicrous, an I've been known to call a couple of people on it. I don't dress for the handgun. That's why I have more than one gun. I dress for the weather, THEN decide how I'm going to carry. It's kind of difficult to conceal comfortably in warmer weather, so that's when I mostly Open Carry.

I'm not against any legal form of carry. As long as you exercise your rights, that's all that matters to me. I just want people to take the time to learn about things before they condemn them. Think about things for yourself instead of drinking the Kool-Ade.

Lastly, in the interest of full exposure (not that kind ) I have to admit that I have a western gun belt with a drop holster for my Uberti replica Colt SAA. I even wore it once, too, to our annual Western Washington OC meet at my apartment complex.

More food for thought: Every time time you pay your fee for your license to conceal, you are paying to exercise your right to bear arms. Name one other right you have to pay to exercise. SUPPORT CONSTITUTIONAL CARRY!

Last edited by Bookman; November 24th, 2010 at 01:36 AM.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 01:22 AM   #50
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXDMERC View Post
i never have OC'd i am more comfortable CCing. i support OCing, but i prefer the more "concealed" style ,i dont wanna give away the element of surprise.
"Element of surprise" is ambush terminology. It makes you sound bloodthirsty and overly aggressive. So does the term "tactical advantage". That one sounds kind of mall ninja(ish).
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Old November 24th, 2010, 06:12 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
Why should your safety take second place to their feelings. Has it ever occurred to you that the extra time it takes to get to your weapon could prove the difference between life and death?
What extra time? If you:
1. Select proper holster & cover clothing
2. Take the time to learn and practice proper drawing technique from beneath your cover clothing, your draw time will not be an issue.
I personally choose to practice this skill at least twice per week and I seriously doubt that your draw from an uncovered position would be any faster, and if you don't practice much, probably not nearly as fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
All that being said, I recognize that there are times when Concealed Carry rules the day. When I went to my coworkers wedding I concealed. During the winter I mostly conceal, just because I'm not going to shun a coat in order to show off my gun.
Bookman ... With all due respect and based on your earlier stated standard, why is your safety not more important than your friend's comfort at his wedding or your comfort of wearing a coat when it's cold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
I'm not against any legal form of carry. As long as you exercise your rights, that's all that matters to me. I just want people to take the time to learn about things before they condemn them. Think about things for yourself instead of drinking the Kool-Ade.
Bookman ... As far as I can see, no one here is condemning your choice to open carry, and as I said earlier, I support your right 100%. However, your presentation of concealed carry as an inferior self defense technique sure makes it seem as though you have little tolerance for those who do not drink the "open carry kool-aide". Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 06:44 AM   #52
 
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With an extra second of thought I just realized given the option I would do both. Is the cop who loses his gun disarmed? Not when he pulls out his back up from his ankle holster! (Or wherever) So I can see reasoning for both. I look at having to pay the state money for what is already a right as a gray zone. My right shall not be infringed but money does need to be paid to cover expenses by the state. I don't know. I don't like it, but I don't know.

Bookman, I think you may just be spot on while I am in wishy washy mode. But my ears are open and my mind is clear. And you are making a lot of sense.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 07:35 AM   #53
 
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When I first started to carry I did not have a conceal permit so I was restricted to open carry only. Being I started to open carry I am more comfortable doing so. The only time I conceal is when I go outside in the winter because my coat covers my gun. I don't think there is only one right way to carry, if you are armed and feel comfortable in the way you choose to exercise your rights then that is the right way for you. just my two cents.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 07:52 AM   #54
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On the speed of OC vrs CC many years ago it was said about an unrelated topic which I think applies:

Quote:
Speed is fine but accuracy is final.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 08:09 AM   #55
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Both have their benefits and draw backs; neither is wrong.

Unfortunately, there are some who carry openly to prove a point or make a statement. Remember the moron who was walking around a Tea Party rally with an AR? Maybe it was legal, but I doubt if his real purpose was protection. The media sure loved the guy and I don't believe he helped our cause.

How about the gunshop employees with their guns-of-the-month tactically strapped to their legs? Should they be armed? Absolutely. However, their fashion statement is also a "shoot me in the back" sign.

It's hard to judge intent. Still, I think a concealed weapon is probably the best defensive way to carry. Just my opinion ...
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Old November 24th, 2010, 08:33 AM   #56
 
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it seems some folks have the idea that everyone not familiar or open to open carry have this preconceived mental glitch that everyone can pound sand if their feelings are hurt when they see open carry.
I for one have thought it over, and most people I know would be a little surprised to see somebody openly carrying in a public venue. Dangerous or more safe? I'll leave that up to those who do it one way or the other if it is their right, but I will at the same time be mindful of the more than a century of society taming down to where hardly anyone carries openly anymore because it has become over time less needed in our day to day approach at life wherever that may be. I grew up in Montana which has some more gun friendly rules than most places, and I have rarely seen anyone carry openly in city limits. I have, but rarely. Back in the 80's open carry started to become a popular trend especially in Az, and when passing through there I've seen a few carrying and was surprised at 1st, but that passed. i haven't really seen anyone carry openly in a long time. I must say that one time at a high school football game, I saw a guy with his girlfriend carrying a semi-auto .22 with bullet loops all the way around his waist and he was also dressed very much like a mountain man with a large knife on his belt too. This guy looked like a doofus because of how he carried himself like he was specifically daring anyone to trouble him and most people gave him a wide spread in the bleachers because the feeling seemed mutual amongst most folks. If this chuckle head ha carried concealed, there would have been no odd feeling in the air, but I honestly think he wanted to have everyone on their toes and that was wrong. I carry in the field openly sometimes when in Mt, but often conceal because it is legal to do so outside of city limits in rural no-incorporated areas. I've come across folks on the trail who never blinked, and some have seemed uncomfortable and even asked me if i was hunting bear or some other stupid comment. I prefer the concealment mode, but would not want to be told I couldn't carry openly because sometimes it may be appropriate. Many scenarios to think over, so it is not just cut and dry in all places to do so.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 08:42 AM   #57
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRL View Post
I'm sure you heard about the nut that killed 4 officers here.
I'm sure he saw their firearms, but he didn't care.
And they wern't actively CONFRONTING this individual at all.
I would think that a nut case bent on evil would eliminate the precieved threat first, including innocent civilians who happen to be openly carrying.
That disply may avoid a confrontation altogether, but as this tragedy clearly shows, that is not always the case.
You need to both learn your facts and work on your reading comprehension. This man did not disarm the officers and kill them with their own weapons as was the scenario I responded to. He brought his own gun as he was looking for an LEO or LEO's to murder in order to settle a score. He was on the hunt and found them and then killed them as he had planned and even told friends prior to the act. The perp went into the restaurant armed and intent on killing cops. He would have shot them even if they had been unarmed. Your point is invalid.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 08:52 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bookman View Post
"Element of surprise" is ambush terminology. It makes you sound bloodthirsty and overly aggressive. So does the term "tactical advantage". That one sounds kind of mall ninja(ish).
I'll take the "Element of suprise" and "tactical advantage" over speed of draw from an open holster any day of the week!
Really doesn't matter if you can draw your gun 6 times faster or whatever, from your open holster...If you don't see a threat comming until after it's too late.
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Old November 24th, 2010, 08:53 AM   #59
 
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After coming back to read responses I have this: it is sad days that we are even discussing this in AMERICA. The brits and their hegemony have won. We have become the uk, only a little longer and this will be chatter for bygone days of old ... between this thread and More about the old days ... I almost shed a tear ...
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Old November 24th, 2010, 09:14 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mapache View Post
You need to both learn your facts and work on your reading comprehension. This man did not disarm the officers and kill them with their own weapons as was the scenario I responded to. He brought his own gun as he was looking for an LEO or LEO's to murder in order to settle a score. He was on the hunt and found them and then killed them as he had planned and even told friends prior to the act. The perp went into the restaurant armed and intent on killing cops. He would have shot them even if they had been unarmed. Your point is invalid.
Then let's responed to my scenario.
My point was this.
If a trained officer can have his gun taken away from him in a confrontation NO MATTER HOW IT CAME ABOUT, what chance do I as an average Joe have of hanging on to my firearm should its presence be known.
I'll keep mine conceled.
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