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marine transport of firearm over demarkation line

This is a discussion on marine transport of firearm over demarkation line within the CCW forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; my question is: If you carry your gun by boat over the demarcation line into another state's waters does it constitute a violation if the ...


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Old May 10th, 2017, 12:59 PM   #1
 
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marine transport of firearm over demarkation line

my question is: If you carry your gun by boat over the demarcation line into another state's waters does it constitute a violation if the other state doesn't have reciprocal agreement with the state you left and hold a permit from? Anybody have experience with this? I ask because the first thing the CG will ask before boarding to do an inspection is "do you have any weapons aboard?"



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Old May 10th, 2017, 01:05 PM   #2
 
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Your answer should be here, assuming "vehicle" also includes watercraft.:


http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/usa.pdf
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Old May 10th, 2017, 03:42 PM   #3
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I wouldn't assume your boat is the same as a motor vehicle given states do have specific regulations regarding firearms and vessels. In Florida the state only has jurisdiction within 3 miles in the Atlantic and 9 miles in Gulf waters. Beyond those boundaries you are in federal waters out to 200 miles or until you encounter the territorial waters of another country. The point being in federal waters state laws are not likely to apply. Inside state waters you should know the regs of the state you are in, probably found in each state's fish & game regs.

It can get interesting. For instance, in Florida you may not open carry yet you CAN open carry if you are fishing. Simply having a gun on board in a drawer or locker in Florida is a non issue. USCG boardings are pretty commonplace here and the question is asked about weapons and when answered yes they may want to see it or they may not. That's about it. Of course Florida is a pretty gun friendly state and just because Florida has their rules that doesn't mean other states are the same.

Since Florida doesn't have a gun registration scheme or require any kind of license or permit to simply own a gun there is no Florida document that would have any reciprocity in other states. Not talking about concealed weapons permit here just mere possession. Since the OP is from someplace in the northeast I wouldn't be surprised if states like NJ took a different approach to the matter. I'm not gonna pretend to have the answers but just suggest to look into the state regs of the states you plan to do your boating in. It may not be the USCG that would be the toughest but rather the state agencies that patrol the local waters. Here in our part of FL we have the sheriff, the city police and the Florida Wildlife Comission (state police) all patrolling the water in addition to the USCG. When boating here you could be stopped and inspected by four different agencies.
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Old May 10th, 2017, 05:43 PM   #4
 
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Crossing the demarcation line of NY or NJ would probably not be a good place to test any theories.
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Old May 10th, 2017, 06:18 PM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by stonebuster View Post
my question is: If you carry your gun by boat over the demarcation line into another state's waters does it constitute a violation if the other state doesn't have reciprocal agreement with the state you left and hold a permit from?
If you carry your gun by boat over the demarcation line, you would be in the other state. So, yes, it would be a violation.
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Old May 11th, 2017, 03:41 AM   #6
 
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I agree that you would be under the jurisdiction of the state whose waters you are in same as in a car. States may or not have different rules for cars and boats as Florida does.

Anyone know what the firearm in a boat laws are in federal waters?
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Old May 11th, 2017, 04:12 AM   #7
 
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the coast guard will ask for and secure any weapons on board during a boarding. they do not go into the issue of state lines (in my experience). now state DEP/DEC officers may have a different perspective. my vessel is my home and is treated as such. your milage may vary.
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Old May 11th, 2017, 04:31 AM   #8
 
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the coast guard will ask for and secure any weapons on board during a boarding. they do not go into the issue of state lines (in my experience). now state DEP/DEC officers may have a different perspective. my vessel is my home and is treated as such. your milage may vary.
In many states the "vessel is my home" concept only applies if there are sleeping quarters and a toilet on board.

for many years, I've been part of a group that rents a 53 ft houseboat on Rainy Lake on the MN Ontario border. We stay on the US side.

MN DNR will not board the houseboat when it it tied up on shore.

When underway they consider it a boat and will stop the hb and board it to look at fishing limits/ slot size violations.

Last edited by mndoggie; May 11th, 2017 at 04:34 AM.
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Old May 11th, 2017, 04:54 AM   #9
 
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New jersey law does not allow handgun hunting and the state game laws specifically state that if you are hunting and you enter a structure you must unload and case your weapon. So If you are hunting and decide to stop and eat the gun must go in a case unloaded and you will still probably be approached by law enforcement.Law enforcement in New Jersey is institutionally unfriendly to gun owners. The head of the state police has stated and so have 2 of his predecessors that if concealed carry reciprocity is passed by congress and signed they will not recognize it until it is upheld by the Supreme court.
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Old May 11th, 2017, 05:46 AM   #10
 
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The OP's question is pretty broad and needs to be very specific in order to be answered correctly.

There are hundreds of variations of that question that can result in different correct answers.
Which states?
Where and how is the gun stored?
What kind of gun ?
Where's the line ? inland (lake), off shore (ocean), bay (not really ocean), navigable river????
Who is in actual possession of the gun? Who is in constructive possession of the gun?
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Old May 11th, 2017, 05:58 AM   #11
 
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Worried bout PIRATES are we?

We have a large lake that has an area CLAIMED to be owned by indians. No fishing or entry.
But thanks to George Washington, its illegal for indians to own anything reservation connected in PA. And also, the STATE claims all water rightaways. So its kinda a grey area.

Last edited by Iowegan; May 19th, 2017 at 08:07 PM. Reason: remove derogatory comment
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Old May 19th, 2017, 03:49 AM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrol and Powder View Post
The OP's question is pretty broad and needs to be very specific in order to be answered correctly.

There are hundreds of variations of that question that can result in different correct answers.
Which states?
Where and how is the gun stored?
What kind of gun ?
Where's the line ? inland (lake), off shore (ocean), bay (not really ocean), navigable river????
Who is in actual possession of the gun? Who is in constructive possession of the gun?
I'll be more specific. In my own boat, I leave port in Connecticut (Long Island Sound) with my semi-auto handgun on board on a fishing trip to New York waters to fish the north shore of LI. Long Island Sound is considered " Inland waters" but that is immaterial as you cross over the line which is about 7 miles from my port(about half way across sound.) I'm a CG licensed 100 ton master captain and am well aware of where the NY line is and what is designated inland, near coastal, ocean and international waters. I would be in possession of the handgun and have a handgun permit issued by CT. I think Bozz 48 had the right answer. DCD327, no my concern is not pirates. To get to my boat, often at 2am, I have to travel through a really run down crime ridden part of the city where the locals use the stop signs for target practice. Live aboards at the marina have sometimes encountered thieves breaking into boats at night. I CC on my way to boat. I don't want to lock the gun up in my truck and risk having it stolen. If I carry it on the boat I'm illegal. There's the problem. In the place I most need the handgun, the law makes me a criminal if I bring the gun on the trip. Hope that clarifies my question which I think Bozz answered very simply and correctly.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 04:45 AM   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickreip View Post
the coast guard will ask for and secure any weapons on board during a boarding. they do not go into the issue of state lines (in my experience). now state DEP/DEC officers may have a different perspective. my vessel is my home and is treated as such. your milage may vary.
I have been boarded a few time s by the Coast Guard and have never been asked to remove my weapons. Last year 4 came aboard asked if we had weapons all 4 of us did the young man seemed surprised we all had weapons I laughed and said " Son what neck of the woods are you from, because in this neck of the woods a lot of people carry" He grinned and asked us just to keep our hands in the open while inspecting the boat.
I noticed a older guy on the boat and am sure he was close to some heavy fire power if needed but looked like a proud uncle watching his young crew handle them selves like pros made me proud as well as they were fine young men.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 11:52 AM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by stonebuster View Post
If I carry it on the boat I'm illegal. There's the problem. .
Correct, and that's following the Title 18 law. You CANNOT carry it on the boat once you cross over into NY. But you might be legal if the firearm is locked away (like Title 18 says) while in NY waters. I live in CT and know where you are "coming from". Best bet: contact an attorney beforehand, and get a written opinion.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 12:31 PM   #15
 
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Correct, and that's following the Title 18 law. You CANNOT carry it on the boat once you cross over into NY. But you might be legal if the firearm is locked away (like Title 18 says) while in NY waters. I live in CT and know where you are "coming from". Best bet: contact an attorney beforehand, and get a written opinion.
I would have no issue with breaking the gun down (only take me a minute or two) and placing it in a locked gun case. I will contact an attorney. Thanks for the advice. I believe that probably the same transport of handgun restrictions that apply to crossing NY state line on land would also apply to marine transport but the only way to be sure is talk to a lawyer.

Last edited by stonebuster; May 19th, 2017 at 12:34 PM.
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