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Carrying with an Empty Chamber Cost Two Lives

This is a discussion on Carrying with an Empty Chamber Cost Two Lives within the CCW forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; LINK TO VIDEO NO LONGER AVAILABLE With respect to those who choose to carry with an empty chamber, this story (with video) is another great ...


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Old April 8th, 2017, 09:05 PM   #1
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Carrying with an Empty Chamber Cost Two Lives

LINK TO VIDEO NO LONGER AVAILABLE

With respect to those who choose to carry with an empty chamber, this story (with video) is another great reminder why I choose to always carry with one in the chamber.

While there is no guarantee that this man and his son would have survived had he not had to take the time to attempt to rack the slide, he clearly had no chance against a perp with a gun at the ready

[VIDEO] This Man Carried With An Empty Chamber, And It Cost Him His Life And His Son?s Life ? Concealed Nation




Last edited by BuckJM53; April 12th, 2017 at 03:04 AM. Reason: LINK TO VIDEO NO LONGER AVAILABLE
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Old April 8th, 2017, 10:43 PM   #2
 
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Good video ....................
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Old April 9th, 2017, 02:39 AM   #3
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Without a round in the chamber it's just a club. Best quote "He had the rest of your life to chamber a round". Being a revolver fan I keep all my chambers full.
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Old April 9th, 2017, 03:01 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry_p View Post
Without a round in the chamber it's just a club. Best quote "He had the rest of your life to chamber a round". Being a revolver fan I keep all my chambers full.
Agreed ... that quote pretty well summed up the peril he placed himself in. Even if he had practiced racking the slide on the draw (which appears doubtful IMHO after several views of the video), he was still at a disadvantage.
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Old April 9th, 2017, 05:26 AM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry_p View Post
Without a round in the chamber it's just a club. Best quote "He had the rest of your life to chamber a round". Being a revolver fan I keep all my chambers full.
Mine are full too.
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Old April 9th, 2017, 05:30 AM   #6
 
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A empty chamber,could mean a trip to ever lasting.
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Old April 9th, 2017, 05:56 AM   #7
 
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Originally Posted by BuckJM53 View Post
Even if he had practiced racking the slide on the draw (which appears doubtful IMHO after several views of the video), he was still at a disadvantage.
I want to ask about that. I have been told by my carrying friends, I don't carry, that you should spend enough time at the range making the motion of drawing and firing almost instinctual with muscle memory. Looked to me like this guy didn't have the muscle memory.

So do you all still think that even with that level of practice and training that there is a disadvantage to carrying un-chambered?

Given my years of gun safety and handling, it would be difficult to carry with a chambered round. I was always taught never to do that and that's what I've taught my kids. Mind you again I don't carry because I don't spend the time necessary to go to the range to make drawing and firing part of my muscle memory, thus I don't feel I would be carrying responsibly. Clearly safety courses today teach that it is ok to carry chambered.

Do I need to reteach my kids and relearn my gun safety?
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Old April 9th, 2017, 06:34 AM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry_p View Post
Without a round in the chamber it's just a club. Best quote "He had the rest of your life to chamber a round". Being a revolver fan I keep all my chambers full.
Terry_p is correct. It's a safe condition, but only that. A person "may"/"may" have time to rack a round into the chamber if they all ready aren't looking into the muzzle end of another gun, but why take the chance. When investigating a home burglary when the owner was not at home as a LEO, the owner showed me his 357 mag model 19 S&W he had stashed in his bedroom. He showed me how the first two chambers that would come into play for firing were empty, hence he had a 'four-shooter'. He advised if someone would get ahold of his gun from him and fire it at him upon pulling the trigger it would go click and a second click also. His assumption was that the perp would figure the gun was empty and by that time he could attack the perp and get the gun from him. He showed and told me all this as I think he thought I'd think he was a safe consciences firearm owner. I told him what I thought of the practice, mainly if he had to fire to save his skin the time it took him to 'dry fire' the two empty chambers may cost him his life. Advised him of better practices for safe loaded firearm storage and use. He did have the gun in a locked box buried in a nearby chest filled with sheets, but he said he'd take it out every night when he went to bed and put it in a nearby night stand drawer. Anyway, yep, a gun not ready to go at the first pull of the trigger isn't much of a defense and could cost your and/or other lives.
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Old April 9th, 2017, 06:59 AM   #9
 
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Okay. You are exactly correct. Here is some more info on this particular shooting.

The victims were clients at my wife's bank. She new both of them very well. After letting the family grieve,my wife asked the surviving son,if he (the father), had any formal firearms training, or had been practicing. The answer was: "No".
When the video was release, I was heartbroken, as it depicts exactly what happened. The lack of familiarity with his firearm cost them everything.

The bad guys went on to put 16 rounds into his lifeless body...

Takeaway: Train, train, train. Practice, practice, practice.
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Old April 9th, 2017, 07:16 AM   #10
 
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"A pint of sweat saves a gallon of blood."- George S. Patton

That man made several poor decisions in my opinion, not to trample on a mans grave, but even deciding to draw with is son in the cross fire was reckless at best.

Chilling video, great share, and an excellent training tool.
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Old April 9th, 2017, 07:18 AM   #11
 
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If you're not willing to carry chambered then you're not ready to carry period.
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Old April 9th, 2017, 07:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nawagner View Post
I want to ask about that. I have been told by my carrying friends, I don't carry, that you should spend enough time at the range making the motion of drawing and firing almost instinctual with muscle memory. Looked to me like this guy didn't have the muscle memory.

So do you all still think that even with that level of practice and training that there is a disadvantage to carrying un-chambered?

Given my years of gun safety and handling, it would be difficult to carry with a chambered round. I was always taught never to do that and that's what I've taught my kids. Mind you again I don't carry because I don't spend the time necessary to go to the range to make drawing and firing part of my muscle memory, thus I don't feel I would be carrying responsibly. Clearly safety courses today teach that it is ok to carry chambered.

Do I need to reteach my kids and relearn my gun safety?
NAWagner ... At the end of the day it is your decision alone. That said, from my perspective the following are the reasons I carry with a round chambered:

1. My first round from the draw is nearly a second faster. My live fire exercises and my iTarget Pro laser place my average time from draw (beneath cover garment) to first round fired at +/- 1.4 seconds with a round cambered and +/- 2.3 if I have to chamber a round. Given the "perp distance" is generally less than 7 yards, that one second makes a big difference IMHO.

2. Adding an extra step if racking the slide under pressure provides an additional opportunity for something to go wrong. What if my hand slips or the round fails to fully chamber or the perp closes on me with the extra time (knife or attempts to grab my gun) or gets 2 rounds off before I can chamber the first (assuming he already has his firearm pointing in my direction).

3. I don't buy into the "Isreali Mossad" argument. I suspect that the majority of their confrontations are on the offense and not being robbed by some drugged up idiot. IMHO it's an apples and oranges difference between racking the slide to go on offense verses drawing your firearm to fend off an attacker.

In answer to your final question, if it were my decision I would opt to retrain myself and family. Good luck with your decision .

Last edited by BuckJM53; April 9th, 2017 at 09:12 AM. Reason: speellliiinnngg
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Old April 9th, 2017, 07:43 AM   #13
 
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I am going to shock everyone. While it is terrible that someone lost their life, it is just none of my business how they carried, or carry.

FTR I carry with a round in the chamber, but think it is embarrassing for the gun community that we cannot get along. Constantly arguing about differences in what, or how someone carries.

Let the dead rest in piece, and remember YOU are responsible for you, not the rest of society.
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Old April 9th, 2017, 07:54 AM   #14
 
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I want to go home to heaven but not today. Always chambered.
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Old April 9th, 2017, 08:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingwolf View Post
I am going to shock everyone. While it is terrible that someone lost their life, it is just none of my business how they carried, or carry.

FTR I carry with a round in the chamber, but think it is embarrassing for the gun community that we cannot get along. Constantly arguing about differences in what, or how someone carries.

Let the dead rest in piece, and remember YOU are responsible for you, not the rest of society.
WW ... As I alluded to in post #12, it is indeed each persons responsibility to make this (and every) decision affecting their life and the safety thereof. That said, IMHO there is nothing wrong with a well reasoned conversation on this topic and disagree that such debate is "embarrassing for the gun community". If that were the case, it would be pointless to have the majority of discussions we have here. YMMV
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