joshandshirelle

Alright guys heres the deal, maybe someone can clarify this up for me-

The missus and I will be taking a flight from FL to NJ soon. After a short stay (4-5hr) in NJ we will be driving to our family in PA.

From my understanding on FL laws, I am allowed to carry my weapon loaded and locked from immediate access in trunk/glove(without a concealed license) however I also understand that NJ & PA law varies greatly from good ole FL. My lady is in the process of getting her CCW down here but wont be able to have one issued till after September since she is doing the online course from the FL Fish & Wildlife.

SO-
What is my best route of action for this trip?
Keep everything unloaded & locked in my trunk separate from each other (and avoid LEOs at all costs)?

Also, say I was to be stopped en route to my final destination; would a bill of sale in originating state suffice to keep me out of trouble?

Thanks guys

Whocares05050

Best thing to do is call each states proper department and ask. dont take someones word for it on here unless they are paying to bail you out.. hehe

Ruger Redhawk

As screwed up as the Northeast is I'd be awful cautious. You need to ask questions from the authorities like whocares said. Then I would still want it in writing.

savage shooter

New Jersey State Police firearms info: New Jersey State Police - Transporting a Firearm Into / Through the State of New Jersey

joshandshirelle

thanks for the help

terry_p

The way I read it in the trunk and unloaded with the ammo in the trunk and you are ok. It looks like no requirement to notify a LEO if you are stopped. I'm no attorney so don't take my word for it just drive lawfully whatever you do.

razadp

Unloaded and stored in the TRUNK, in a locked box. NOT the glove box.

Also note that NJ is the only state where hollowpoint bullets are considered inherently evil. If it was found in your glove box, expect several years in the slammer unless you have good laywer money. Even retired cops with CC permits will be arrested if found with hollowpoints in their carry piece.

Across the border in PA is much more reasonable.

unclenunzie

If you were traveling to PA from FL directly, FOPA offers protection as you drive through NJ - but only if your transit is direct, without any intervening stops that are not strictly necessary for the trip (gas, directions, toilet, etc). And only if your possession is legal in start and destination states. If you stop in NJ along the way for visitation or any other reason which is not related to transit necessity, NJ becomes the immediate trip destination and FOPA will not protect you: NJ law would then apply. Unless you have are on the way to a range, or to hunting & have a valid NJ hunting license, to cover the transport of long guns into NJ, you would be in violation. For handguns unless you are going directly to a range for target, you would be in violation.

Not legal advice, I am not a lawyer. But by landing in NJ and planning to stay in NJ for several hours visitation, you better make sure your guns are legal for you to possess in NJ by NJ law while staying there. I am pretty sure they would not be, and as soon as you land you would be at risk of arrest and prosecution.

I have a FL CWL, and have traveled from my home to FL via air travel legally without problems because: NJ legal handgun bought legal in NJ my home state, declared unloaded in locked case in checked baggage at air counter, destination legal in FL by my CWL (to possess and carry).

unclenunzie

unclenunzie

One other thing to add, you might want to consider landing in PA, store your guns in PA w/family there, then day trip to NJ without the guns. Just sayin'

best of luck,

unclenunzie

DILLIGAS

The NRA recently posted this case up on its website. I'd suggest that we all read it.

Friday, April 02, 2010

This week's Outrage concerns a legal case that comes to us from New Jersey, where a well-meaning firearm owner, through a series of events that were no fault of his own, inadvertently ran afoul of the law (or, rather, an interpretation of the law).

Gun owner Gregg C. Revell was flying from Salt Lake City, UT, to Allentown, PA, by way of Minneapolis, MN, and Newark, NJ. Revell had an unloaded firearm that was legally checked in his luggage, which he was to pick up upon his arrival in Allentown.

That was the plan, but things soon went awry. Revell's flight into Newark was delayed, causing him to miss his connecting flight to Allentown. He was able to book a seat on the next flight, but that course of action was changed by the airline. He then tried to take a bus, but his luggage didn't make it to the bus on time. He retrieved his luggage, but missed the bus. With no more connections to Allentown until the following morning, Revell went (with his luggage, of course) directly to, and stayed the night at, the Airport Sheraton Hotel. By this time, Revell had been through a lot, but his real trouble was just beginning.

The next morning, Revell returned with his luggage directly to the airport. He checked his luggage and, as he was supposed to, told the agent that he had an unloaded firearm stored in a locked case in his luggage. It was at this point that Revell's destination changed from Allentown to a Newark jail cell. He was arrested on the spot because New Jersey law requires a permit to possess a handgun (and also bans the hollow-point ammunition that Revell also had in a separate locked container in his luggage), and as soon as Revell's luggage became "readily accessible" to him (in this case, when he took possession of his luggage to go to the hotel) he violated state law.

The Firearms Owners' Protection Act (FOPA) states that, "Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console."

After spending four days in a Newark jail cell, Revell was released on bail. Revell was eventually cleared of all charges, but he didn't get his firearm and other property back until almost three years later.

With help from the NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund, Revell sued for damages related to his unjust arrest and detention (as a violation of his civil rights), but lost, with the U.S. Court of Appeals, Third Circuit's finding that Revell was not covered under FOPA's narrowly defined safe harbor provision.

So we have a case where a firearm owner does everything he can to obey the law [ my ephasis]and ensure that he safely transports his firearm. Through no fault of his own, he is accused of violating the law. He is arrested, then thrown in the Newark jail for four days, and loses possession of his personal property for almost three years. That is outrageous!

This case is not as unusual as you may think. NRA presently has two similar cases awaiting rulings by the U.S. Second Circuit.

NRA members would be well advised to use caution when traveling with a firearm—especially by plane, and especially in the states of New York and New Jersey—if a planned, or unplanned stop in "hostile territory" is necessary.

joshandshirelle

Heres where another problem presents itself-

Since I also will be departing from NJ back to FL after my trip to PA, will I get screwed like this guy did? I am not a NJ resident(anymore thank g-d)and I am just traveling through Jersey...guess I have to hop on the phones and make some calls.

joshandshirelle

Uncle-How are the check-in procedures in NJ? In FL all I've ever had to do is open the hard case, have a little piece of orange paper thrown in saying it is unloaded, lock it up and it was on its way. No LEOs involved, never a single problem. Same thing in Philadelphia.


As for traveling straight to PA...by landing in Atlantic City I saved $189 per ticket. Moneys tight so I look to save mulah any way I can(wish list aint getting any shorter on its own). Besides, the family hasn't been out to the casinos in a while so it gives something to do before we fly in.

P90SS

Yes, be careful.

unclenunzie

My personal experience was similar to yours. I arrived with my gun unloaded and locked in a small hard case inside my checked luggage. A small amount of ammo was also in the checked luggage. I went straight to the ticket counter and explained that I needed to make an unloaded firearm declaration, at which point the counter person fumbled around a bit finding the right form (really just a simple tag). I filled it out and they stuffed it into my luggage, and had a guy come and wheel it to TSA while I waited..... TSA scanned the hard case without opening it, and took the baggage for my flight. I picked it up as usual at the other end in SW Florida. The return trip was different, the counter elderly lady made me open the locked case and show the weapon was empty, which was kind of strange with people on line behind me. Processed normal and picked up at the other end as usual.

The concern in my mind is transit between car and airport. Probably OK, as in the luggage goes into trunk of car and you drive to PA. IF you are legal to possess in PA then federal law (FOPA) should protect you. Same on the return trip.

I recommend after reading and printing copies of TSA and airline regs regarding transport of firearms, you call the airline and verify their latest. Call the NJ state police and see what they say regarding the trip. On the firearms page it talks about the federal law and nj law. Take the printouts with you to the airport in case of confusion.

Remember if you stop someplace for reasons beyond simple trip necessity, state a to state b, your stop becomes a destination (state c) and state/local laws apply.

Again not a lawyer, but I think if you drive straight from airport to PA, and likewise PA to airport, you'll be ok. BUT if you go to Atlantic City with even unloaded locked up guns in the trunk, they can arrest and prosecute you and federal law can't help.

good luck with you trip, stay safe

joshandshirelle

Uncle -THANK YOU!

I am not worried about getting stopped en route to or from the airport, its the check in procedure that was spooking me out. After reading the NRA article posted above I thought check in procedures were different in NJ as a LEO was present to arrest the man. No idea what went afoul with that declaration, however I have never had a LEO present during check in of any of my weapons when going to PA from FL.

Thanks again

JF

unclenunzie

Yeah, I think I read someplace (but could be wrong) that the ticket counter person called the police or some such nonsense. If you have a printed copy of the airlines firearms rules and the TSA rules, that should help.