CCKen

My wife went out the door after dark last night with our Australian Shepherd on a leash for a short run. We live in sub division and the homes are close together and the streets well lighted. However the closest street light to our home is about 3 houses up. She and I have taken the dog out for walks or runs many times before and I knew her route. Since she wasn’t going out of the sub division I didn’t give it much thought other than noting the time she left. I had just taken my CCW out of my pocket and put it by the bed. I was in the back office at the computer. It is normally a quite place.

Not 60 seconds later I heard my wife screaming my name from the front yard. Out the door I went grabbing my .38 snubbie on the fly after a short detour into the bedroom. It was a heck of mess. My wife is screaming at me that our dog is getting ‘killed”. About seven feet to my right out of the light I hear all hell breaking loose but I can not see anything. Sounds like my dog is fighting for her life. Our dog Ginger is an Australian Shepherd about 3 years old. She is no light weight – the last time I had her into the vet she was about 67 pounds.

I yell at my wife, “I need light!” “Get me some light!” It seemed like time just stopped. I couldn’t see and it seemed like my wife was taking forever. I yelled at her again, “Flip on the garage lights and open the garage door.” The fight was going on between the garage door and my wife’s car and with the garage door open the area would have been flooded with light. Finally she runs out and hands me a burning flash light.

We live at the end of a cull de sac. Out of the light to the right is the fence that separates our neighborhood from the canal road. Mean time the struggle has moved across the double drive way into the side yard along the fence moving away from our house to the neighbors. I grabbed the light and headed toward the noise. A white pit bull mix dog had Ginger by the throat and was tossing her around like a sack of potatoes. I was shocked at how my dog was getting tossed around by that beast. The attacker was facing me and had Ginger by the throat on her right side. I came in from the left with the light held shoulder high in my weak side and the snubbie at arms length. I stopped about ten feet away.

As I mentioned we live in a subdivision and are in city limits where it is illegal to discharge a firearm. In fact we got a visit from a City Police Officer a few years ago when my son and his friends where walking down the canal shooting at birds with his pellet gun. He was very polite but quit firm about the law. Also I mentioned the homes are built very close together.

I have two questions: 1) what would you do if you were in my situation? And, 2) how could I have been better prepared?

Nutty Ned

All that matters here is what did you do?

Doc Owen

Shoot the Pit Bull - self defense. Your dog prevented the Pit Bull from attacking your wife! Whats the problem?

dusty10

Sounds like you were close to your own garage. Since you were unsure of shooting the pit bull due to closeness of neighbor's residence, any chance you have a shovel or other yard tool you could have used on the pit? Also, what kind of round did you have in that .38?

Halfwit

as was already asked,what did you do.....and how many shots did it take?


Sounds like you need to invest in few good heavy flashlights to put just inside your front and back doors.Your wife also needs a light she can run with.This is minimum.......

Crawlinbronc

Sorry to hear of your problems. Hope your dog is doing ok. I am new here and by no means an expert. Couple of thoughts came to my mind. 1. I think this makes a good case for the frangible(?) ammunition. The kind that breaks up after impact and won't penetrate the neighbors siding. And 2. Mas Ayoobs book comes to mind and the quote " I felt my life was in imminent danger" when the dog was looking at you and if you thought you were next or not. The ammo is something I want to research and find out more about for such an occasion. I see you are in Arizona, so what is the locals take on coyotes? Is it ok to protect yourself from them (i.e discharging a firearm at the wild animal)?
Thanks for sharing your story and hope your wife is doing ok as well.

Darrel

RugerGP100

First and foremost I know what you mean by living in a neighborhood and not wanting to miss the mark and hurt some innocent by-stander.

I would have ran up to the pit and shoved the .357 I have on hand and planted it in the dog's rib cage away from my path or my dog's and parted the rib cage.

But to be better prepared this is why I like my Ka-Bar tanto with a 9" blade. I would have simply taken the blade and thrust down into the dogs neck severing the spinal cord.

Does this sound horrific on my part.......no, in my job defense is a matter of maybe taking your last breath and I will not be remembered as a statistic. I will make statistics!

How is your dog? Hopefully okay.

BuckeyeBlast

You asked what I would do. I would've fired. That is NOT advice. What did you do? Is your dog OK?

spartan88

Baseball bat to the body, stab the dog, hell my dogs are family members it would be pretty darn hard not to shoot the s.o.b.

Bagheera

Pit Bulls have the reputation as being a viscious dog. Fearing for my life would have been the comment to the police. Needles to say, I would have fired. No questions asked. You can bet that a leo who's life might be in danger from a dog like that, would have fired as well.

If anything, I would have told the cops that it charged my wife. Just to add "intent" on the dog's part. (Just like Doc Owen says above.)

But, the real question is, what did you do?

By the way, your wife should ALWAYS carry a flashlight with her at night. The heavier, the better. Regardless of lighting conditions provided by street lights. Second, your wife should ALWAYS carry some form of protection on her person. At the very least she should carry mace, pepper spray, knife. etc. Finally, at all times she should carry a well charged cell phone with the house number and police number in it. In an emergency, a house key used as a gouging weapon to the eyes can be effective as well.

gqucool

CCKen, you tell this story and then leave us all hanging!!!!! Shoot the damn pit bull save your dog and possible attack that your wife could have been involved in! I would think there are leash laws in Az. So if your wife was walking your dog on a leash and she and your dog are acosted by this pitbull you are very much in your rights to protect your wife & your dog! Plus I would sue the hell out of the damn neighbor for not keeping their pit bull contained in their yard! Ok so what if the cops come take your gun or whatever! You save your dog & wife from a possible deady attack deal with the legal crap afterwards! I know exactly what you are talking about the subdivisions in Az atleast in the Phoenix area! The house's are so close you can spit from your house to the neghbors!!! My daugher and son inlaw moved down there 3 years ago, they like it there and thats fine but I would not care personally to live where the house's are litteraly stacked on top of each other I need breathing room!!!

ncb

I would have got as close as I could to the dog and shot it, dragged it onto my property and had my three kids standing out in the yard when the cops came.

Lobocop

Shoot the pitbull, not once, but several times until it is no longer a threat.

spartan88

even if I was taken to court or fined or lost my CCW all of it would be worth it to save my dog.

CCKen

The most important thing is that wife and dog are both okay. I have always told my wife to drop the leash and go for help if something like this ever happens. She did good. Miraculously Ginger is okay also. Her neck had dog slobber all over it from the good chewing done to her. I think the combination of her thick mane and a heavy parachute strap type collar saved her from serious injury. I think the pit had a good grip on the collar rather than the dog. She had a little blood on her but I could not find any puncture wounds or cuts. All in all God was looking out for us.

My back drop was a large tree plus the cinder block fence that is at the end of the cull de sac. There was no house to contend with. I put the light on the scene and moved in to the left of the fight so I could get a somewhat side shot. Unfortunately the dogs were between two trees spaced about 10 feet apart. I stopped about 10 feet from them because of the trees and watched for an opportunity. XXXXXXXXXXXXX The last I saw of the pit bull - it was going as fast as it could go out of the cull de sac.

Michal

XXXXXXXX Excellent!

I am really glad your wife and Ginger are unharmed!

CCKen

I am not sold on frangibles except maybe for home protection when I had kids. Have a 2" snubbie (I am a one gun guy - probably more out of necessity than choice). The hollow points I had did not open up like I wanted when I was shooting last week. I asked my LGS guy and he turned me onto Gold Dot 135 Grain Hollow Points for Short Barrel Revolvers. I think they will be the ticket. Just my opinion.

BuckeyeBlast

Good to hear Ken. Now, after XXXXXXXXXXX happened, was there any LEO involvement?

CCKen

Minimal. Called animal control. My neighbor came over to find out what was going on. Good neighbor to have - he came with his hand in his pocket - on his gun. He keeps his eye out and his ears open.

Macx

When I lived in IL, of course a VERY unfriendly gun state, also inside city limits, I had an encounter with a rabid raccoon. It was in an area near where kids play & daylight (not typical raccon time). I used a broadsword & found it deficient in a lot of ways. After that, I picked up a "Bushman" from Cold Steel. It is single edged & meant to be mounted on the shaft of your choice (like a shovel handle from the hardware store). It's main selling points are: greater reach than a knife or even a broadsword, cheap enough that I wouldn't be broken hearted if the tip got broken due to over penetration or whatever, and it doesn't require discharging a firearm where that is frowned on, the shaft won't flex like a broadsword blade if you end up putting a sideload on it . . so you can use the leverage to toss the animal away from you after you've stuck it. Granted a Javelina or a pit bull isn't going to be a fun weight to toss, but leverage is something a shorter tool just doesn't offer.

RNorris

What is XXXXXXXXXXXX?

dusty10

So you kissed the pit bull and it ran away. That is an unexpected ending.

Just kidding. Glad to hear you and family are fine. That is the best ending possible. Regards, Dusty

kilogulf59

You got that right...

kingstrider

I have a good friend that was mauled by a pit bull 20 years ago as an adult. I probably would have shot that SOB to have one less monster on the loose.

gqucool

Glad to hear all turned out alright but if it were me I would want to find out who owns the Pit Bull and take action accordingly!

RugerGP100

Everyone would do different things and each of may have done near identical. Like one poster stated, my dogs are my family so I would have killed or attempted to kill the pit with every means I could. First, I hate to kill an animal but sometimes we just don't have a choice.

I am glad your dog is okay and your wife most importantly.

A good at least 7" half searrated blade is good to keep on hand. It is quiet and effective but does require one to get right on top of the adversary. Just remember to go for the vital areas to be most effective. On a dog I would look to a sharp downward thrust through the neck to sever the spinal column; a total cross section cut across the throat deep and intentional to basically replicate any horror movie you have seen to cut open the windpipe and all! You can't fight if you can't breathe.

But if all you have is a body shot try and go perpendicular to the horizon between the ribs and thrust deep to penetrate a lung and twist the blad on the way out if you can remember. Opens up the wound channel and creates massive damage and the will to fight is ceased almost instantaneous!

Just a few things I have learned over the years. Gruesome, but works. But be prepared you may get bit in the process but the end will justify the means.

Where I live we also contend with bears at times. They usually run away but in the summer months when they are up and out I like to carry my Ruger GP100 .357 out and my mini sword the Ka-Bar tanto knife which is just wicked at cutting!

Tracer

The first thing you need to do, is have a talk with your wife and let her realize how important HER having a CCW weapon on her body really is my forum friend. She is very lucky that the attack was a dog and not 3 Punks that just happened into your sub-divison that night.

Now getting back to the strange pit-bull dog, I would have shot that dog in the body several times from up close, so you didn't hit your dog. A tuff thing to do at night with little light perhaps but that would have been my goal with my pistol in hand.

I am very glad to here your wife and dog are OK! Now the reason you don't shoot this dog in the head, is that it may have had "RABBIES" and if you destroy that brain, they cannot tell if this dog had rabbies etc.

I would also think about installing some more lights around your house. I have them and it will light this place up like a highschool football game on a Friday night if that switch is thrown or those motion sensors go off etc. Please have a talk with your wife and get her some training for getting her CCW Permit.

LAGun

Pit bull...Dead...period!

CCKen

My main concern was to stop the attack and save my dog. From where I was I had a safe backstop. If I had continued after the attack my back drop changed - homes with people became the back drop. I took no more action than was necessary to stop the attack.

The reason I am writing is to get a better idea as to what I did correctly and what I can do in the future to be prepared. In other words to expect the unexpected. I was not as prepared nor was my wife.

When I get a chance I will report on how this situation and your comments has changed my thought process.

SOUTHPAW

+1 ??????????????

Tater

I believe a GP100 with .38 Spl. wad cutters would have been a good choice. Sure good enough to take out the dog but minimal power to avoid over penetration and a bullet that might go bouncing around the neighborhood.

I believe I would have called this a life threatening situation without hesitation. Your dog was sacrificing itself to protect a fellow family member, which is outstanding.

I think you did perfectly in the situation you described.

Better preparation? not sure how you could have done that. Get your wife a CCW permit and let her practice shooting it. An SP101 or similar would work just fine and are fairly easy to carry.

NAS T MAG

Only read the title of your thread....Wife and dog attached!

I'd have thrown a bucket of water on them and said "bad dog"!

BronxBoy

I am happy it all worked out for you!!!

I live in a state that is very gun unfriendly. I live in a city that refuses CCW to anyone without a GREAT reason and that is subjective so the average Joe doesn’t get a CCW here. It is also illegal to discharge a firearm within city limits but…

The laws regarding self defense and lethal force would override the firearms discharge ordinance here. These laws are more allowing than you’d think when you see “California” and think of gun laws. Here it is legal to use extreme force up to and including lethal force if you feel that a reasonable individual would consider the situation as life threatening to you, a family member or other person or if it is deemed that a person might experience severe bodily harm/injury as the result of an attack. That is mostly paraphrased! That doesn’t mean that you wouldn’t be hassled but the law would be on your side here, especially on your own property but your dog was the only thing between your wife and that pit bull. Who could reasonable say that an attack on your wife was imminent if your dog had failed stop the attacking animal. Plus, your own evaluation, as you stated, had you believing the dog would probably not prevail.

Regardless of the laws and without a doubt, I would have taken out the attacking dog the minute I could get a clean shot and I would have moved however necessary to get that clean sight as rapidly as possible. I salute your patience and situational awareness which you show by your description of the scene. I am not in favor of breaking the law but there are provisions for protecting one’s self and family, even in a state like California, and I believe Arizona is much more forgiving in matters concerning firearms. Because I live in California, I make damn sure I know the state and local ordinances regarding gun possession and use, almost word for word, and I suggest you do the same. As has already been stated, the dog was protecting your wife so that’s your story and all you’d have to do is stick to it!

I have discussed this with a LEO friend and he has told me there were several incidences, over the years, that involved a city resident shooting and killing coyotes and once even a mountain lion that were attacking pets (killing wild animals is illegal here, especially within city limits) that were not prosecuted due to circumstances. I am not a lawyer and, of course, what I say is no guarantee but you have a CCW, you were on your property, you heard your wife screaming and you arrived on scene to a viscous attack as your dog was protecting your wife. You used a legal firearm in a most conscientious way taking full regard to the safety of those nearby so what more could you do. I could not sit by and watch my pet being torn apart and I can’t see anyone being prosecuted under those circumstances, certainly not convicted!

CCKen

XXXXXXXX means I am using my Constitutional Rights and pleading the 5th Ammendment. I did what I needed to do to stop the attack - period. I am sorry that I posted.

Again my purpose in writing was to get some input so I can be a good BoyScout and be prepared. I think I was fortunate in the situation and it could have gone much differently. I love my wife and take my responsibility as protector very seriously. We moved into our neighbor hood 20 plus years ago because we had kids and so did our neighbors. The complexion has changed some. It is not a bad place but not as good as it was. I carry concealed for two reasons. First it is my right and second it is my responsiblity to proctect myself and my family.

CCKen

Spell checker didn't help with that. I agree. Reminds me what Rush used to say -"Words mean something". I noticed it after I posted originally and tried to edit but the title does not edit.

Thanks for the humor. It gave me a chuckle.

Rugerismisticness

Pitbulls are a bad as there owners, Shoot the pitbull till dead. Many neighborhoods and parks don't allow these animals because they are vicous.

CCKen

Statistics show that a Pit does not bite more often but that because of their breeding (it is what they are) they do not stop and they do not let go. Many insurance companies will not issue a policy if the home has certain breeds (pit bulls are included) or if a dog has a bite history. We had a very sad situation here in my home town a few years ago involving a pit bull that was a family pet. It attacked a little one and killed her.

A pit is often not agressive towards people but are towards other animals and they are territorial.

Most people who own them are very much aware of their reputation. That is often why they have them - the fear factor. To plead ignorance or that their dog would never do anything like that is bogus. That is like saying a rattle snake will not bite - who is going to believe that.

spartan88

To answer your question. No one knows what you ended up doing (and I won't pry because as you said the 5th protects you and it is your business and no one elses). BUT since your wife and dog are both alive and healthy I would say you did EVERYTHING right. And kudos to you for being level headed enough not to take a shot that could have hurt or killed a person or your dog. I can only hope in the same situation I could act as you did and have the same results.

GunsAreGood

This thread is not about bashing Pitbull's and that is exactly what it has turned into. This thread was to ask people what you would do in the situation at hand. Most of you seem that you would not have shot the attacking dog if it where a lab or golden retriever which is completely ridiculous. I agree that some people have Pitbull's because they have that " Bad Ass" persona but most Pitbull owners have them because they are loyal, loving, great personality dog's. Its not the dog its the owner. Have we forgotten who made this bread? Humans of course. Do not blame the dog blame the owner. I can name a hand full of dogs that are just as "Vicious" as a Pitbull Not to mention all those ankle bitting yapity F****** rat dogs that do not have the sense to know up from down and would maul you to death if they where big enough. The media portrays Pitbulls to be killers just the same way the media portrays gun owners as murderers. We all know that the majority of legal gun owners are not. You do not like to be stereotyped so why do you do it. I am sure I will get great responses from this post but I had to say something.

RugerGP100

I believe a dog is a reflection of it's owner. I do agree certain breeds are a little more uncertain but I have seen some very docile pits and other agressive breeds.

I just carry a gun outside because anything can come into your yard or on your property and at night you just have a disadvantage of seeing clearly.

I think you did what you had to and it was a success. This same instance again may not be a success. But that is any scenario and let us no labor the point.

I agree with the one poster.......the wife should have some sort of weapon if she feels confident in it's use and her ability to use it. If not then no weapon because it would be used against her more than likely. Not by the dog but a human being.

The dog breed to me in the OP comment is irrelevant. A dog that attacks is a dog that attacks! You have to be comfortable with the measure you take. Are you ready to get dirty and in the mix to get a contact shot in if need be? Or do you have a safe back drop without a doubt and squeeze off a round to eliminate the threat?

These scenarios like what the OP has stated is why I love a long fixed blade fighting or as I refer to it, killing knife! It is silent and no threat of a innocent person or animal being injured. Thrust and twist on the way out.

Once again friend.......glad the outcome was what it was. Be prepared next time for anything. I try and scan the area before I let my dogs out both day and night as best as possible.

Enjoy.........afterall, it's St. Patrick's Day and a delightful toast to my fellow Irish friends!