So some low life scum bag breaks into your house and you're forced to defend your family. You've neutralized the threat and called 911. The perp is laying on your floor bleeding..........
Do you render aid by performing first aid on him/her or do you stand by and watch them bleed??
I call 911 IMMEDIATELY and insist they also send an ambulance. I keep a safe distance from the burglar and do NOT get close enough to be contacted by him/her. Regrettably, this means I can not render first aid until help arrives.
It's hard to render aid to someone that has just sustained several shots of 00 buckshot.
I will call 911 and that is about the best I could do for the person. You never know if there are accomplices around, so once you begin to render aid, you have left down your guard and are now vulnerable to another attack: sorry to say, but it’s not my responsibility.
On a serious note, the responses suggesting keeping the perp covered and the scene secure and calling 911 to report the incident and request an ambulance would be the way I would handle it.
On the numerous dash cam and body cam videos of actual police shootings I've seen, that's what they do. Call for backup and an ambulance and wait.
Well coming from a progun guy, and also a firefighter/emt I kinda agree with the above guys. I figure I am held to a higher standard than most since I am medically trained but the normal protocols we use every day apply to this as well. When we are dispatched to a call first thing we determine is the scene safe? Safe for us the responders, and for the person needing care, if its not then wait for law enforcement. The second is ppe, or personal protective equipment that you need to provide care, and body substance isolation gear like gloves, face protection, gown, what ever you need to keep you from coming into contact with blood or bodily fluids. If you do not have this gear then you do not proceed or provide aide, its not safe for the rescuer. This is a national standard among emergency services and also protects the rescuer In most cases in a court of law provided you were following protocols that are nationally recogmized.
So if somebody invades my house with a firearm, and I shoot them, I probably would not provide care for the simple, fact the scene is not safe, and I probably do not have the required protective gear to protect myself from fluids or contamimation. I would probably hold the perp by gun point until the authorities and ems arrived, and let them handle it.
Tacky made some great points and solidified in my mind what I would do. Although I have *some* basic trauma life saving training and I don't want to watch someone die if I can help, the points he makes about security and self protection from any biohazards are valid. If that's the standard for licensed EMT's and paramedics then that shall be my standard too.
In the bad old days, before the Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground, conventional wisdom was, if you shot an intruder on the front or back porch, to drag the guy inside the house to make it a legitimate self defense shooting.
Like everyone said I would watch and wait. Who knows if he has a buddy! My concern with giving aid to the intruder would be AIDs or other types of disease blood could spread, Crack heads can have it all!
Same action from me. Remember int eh original Spartacus movie the gladiators are told go for the quick kill over the slow kill and remember a slow kill might have enough in him to kill you before he dies . Sound advice even if 2000 years old.
In Oregon and Washington, you have no legal responsibility to render medical aid after shooting someone in self-defense. Even the Oregon law covering car crashes - which has the wording "...must stop and render aid..." - has been ruled by the courts to not require anyone to render medical aid, even if they are qualified to give medical aid (e.g. doctor, nurse, paramedic, etc.).
Even morally, I don't see that you are obligated to render aid to someone who was just seconds before causing you to be in fear for your life. You could even make the argument that your moral responsibility to your family would prevent you from putting your life in danger to render aid to a person who had been trying to hurt you. Even in the service, when we gave medical care to wounded enemy soldiers (and non-uniformed combatants), we had an armed soldier providing security, ready to render our efforts moot if the victim so much as twitched.
I don't want any diseases or to be sued for doing something that will make their condition worse. May get sued wrongly for defending myself. I don't need to give my attorney something else to worry about.
At least pretending to render aid might look good in any after the fact court proceedings then again it may be used a against you. You had so much remorse and regret you rendered aid.
Make sure you remove any weapons from the vicinity and don't have your gun out when the cops get there you may get shot. If I come across your defensive shooting scene I'll draw on you and tell you to drop your weapon.
Whether he's still breathing or slowling assuming ambient temperature, the scene is not secure. Keep the dirtbag covered (unless you have seperated his brain from his brain housing group, you don't know for sure he's dead), and scan for his dirtbag friends -- miscreants travel in packs. Call 911 or have some else do it for you. Wait for the calvary to arrive.
BUZZZZZ!!! Thank you for playing. We have some lovely parting gifts for you.
The police show up and you are literaly standing over a body with a smoking gun in your hand. Unless you assert your claim of self defense before your right to remain silent, you will be arrested for the apparent offense.
Repeat after me: "He broke into my house. I was in fear for my life and the lives of my family, so I defended myself. Now I think I need to see a doctor, then talk to a lawyer."
Unless you assert the claim of self defense, you will leave the cops no choice but to arrest you based on the evidence they see -- a man with a gun standing over a man who has been shot. Claim self defense (but don't run your mouth about it), and depending on your state, you may not even have to go to the police station.
I've never been in that situation - and hope to never be - so I can't say with certainty how I would react. But sitting on my couch, my first thought is that the bad guy knows the cops are coming to arrest him and he probably doesnt want to go to jail. He may therefore be extra dangerous, so I will be keeping my distance.
Safety today is a big concern. + 1 on protective gear Tacky. In my past days I have been EMT, and even an instructor. in today's world you have no clue what someone has, you could shoot them to save yourself and die a miserable death from a blood born pathogen.
The ony thing that Rivals a gunshot for bodily fluids everywhere is delivering a Baby. Both are life changing events.
Ain't that the truth, or an eviseceration or arterial wound, very very nasty. First protect yourself, the ones you love, then depending on what you have on hand, make the decision to or not too provide care, and arguement can be made for either decision regarding right and wrong.
To me the subject, "Render Aid", implies the bad guy has been shot and is wounded...
...by him being wounded does not make him any less a threat. I wound not render aid, I would call 911 and keep the scene secure until the authorities arrived.
Call 9-1-1 and request an ambulance and law enforcement...do not make any statements on the phone as the 9-1-1 call is recorded.
Do not apologize...apologizing gives the perception that you believe you have done something 'wrong' and the prosecutor's office will use that against you!
Rendering 'First Aid' is a personal choice/option! You do not 'have' to provide first aid...and you have already dialed 9-1-1...so, in essence, you have already secured assistance for his condition. If you don't know the individual, you don't know what possible illnesses and diseases he/she may be carrying and without PPE (personal protective equipment) it is best (safest) if you don't get any of their body fluids on you!
Personally...I would probably keep my distance, continue to protect my family, and allow the EMS professionals to arrive and do their job!
Personally the only first aid that I would provided post incidence is to my family members or myself.
If the intruder is injured I will wait until the ambulance is there since they are the ones that would get called into court and questioned about the care given. If they were to ask me to help I most likely would decide not to since you don't want to put yourself in a situation like that.
I happen to be a Paramedic on a volunteer service and am one of two Paramedics that also do it as a career with other services. So when there are "bad" calls I tend to get asked to go along or to met them somewhere and help out. This puts me in a bad situation since I can perhaps provide care that could save their life. Not saying that the other Paramedics couldn't save their life but I have more experience with critical patients than most of them.
You should always check with your State and Local laws to see if there is anything about rendering aid in a self-defense situation. I know where I stand on it.
I agree with the other posters. Do not disturb the scene and wait for first responders and ambulance.
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