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Why didn't Bill R put a transfer bar in the ROA?

This is a discussion on Why didn't Bill R put a transfer bar in the ROA? within the Black Powder forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; It's unimportant unless the Sturm Ruger Corp is being bombarded with lawsuits on an out of production fun or is being threatened by the feds....


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Old January 21st, 2016, 07:36 AM   #46
 
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It's unimportant unless the Sturm Ruger Corp is being bombarded with lawsuits on an out of production fun or is being threatened by the feds.



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Old January 21st, 2016, 07:39 AM   #47
 
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"Gun " not "fun .

I hate this cellphone's spell check system.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 07:58 AM   #48
 
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Iowegan, seems like I learn something new every time you post, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who does. This "ya know that it happened, but ya always wondered why" is explained well and no questions. Helped me remember a couple things forgotten about the old single actions, too.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 09:13 AM   #49
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
I read it, read the whole thing !

But I also knew about the safety notch and load one, skip one, load the remaining 4 details in your message. What I didn't know was the difference between the billet steel parts and cast parts, I always assumed they were all built the same (billet).
I read it as well - Iowegan is a wealth of knowledge from which we can all learn.

I did already know about Ruger using cast parts as a lower cost measure but had read that typically meant the parts were also thicker as a consequence of the process itself and the result of which is they are just as strong. Though in most of those discussions the focus was on bulk parts such as the cylinder and not on a smaller, thinner parts and usually also in combination with MIM (Metal injection molding) discussion.

I was not aware of some of the detail involving the history of the transfer bar and now I have to go look at my S&W Model 60 a bit closer to see how much of that may apply to my revolver.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 10:19 AM   #50
 
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Originally Posted by AZLCR View Post
Now as for the OP's concerns about the"need" for the transfer bar in the ROA, there is a very simple solution if he is worried about it.

Don't get an ROA! Nuff said.
I've got an ROA and i'm looking to buy another and i think they're great. But anything can be improved.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 11:03 AM   #51
 
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Sorry, but I just don't see any need for improvement here.

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Old January 21st, 2016, 11:42 AM   #52
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mcwsky09, Cast parts are fine for most gun applications ... but not for a safety notch in a hammer or trigger sear where the Achilles heel is a thin brittle section that is subject to breaking. In this application, a less brittle machined steel part will hold up much better ... as evidenced by the hammer and trigger in a Colt SAA, which greatly resemble the Ruger parts in size and shape. Yes, these softer parts will eventually wear but are not likely to break.

If you pull the side plate off your S&W Mod 60, you will see a small part that greatly resembles a miniature hockey stick. The bottom (hockey stick handle) has a slot that fits with a small stud on the trigger rebound slide. The top of the part is "L" shaped and is what blocks the hammer. When the trigger is pulled, the trigger rebound slide moves to the rear and pulls the "hockey stick" out of the way so the hammer can travel until it bottoms out on the frame. If the trigger is NOT pulled (ie gun is dropped and hammer releases) the hammer block (hockey stick) will prevent the hammer from reaching its destination and will not fire. So ... S&W uses a hammer block and Ruger uses a transfer bar ... totally opposite in function but the net result is the same ... if the trigger isn't held fully to the rear, the gun won't fire.

bunnyhugger, It's a classic case of "the squeaky wheel gets the oil". As applied to the ROA, I doubt if there have been many law suites ... and if so, it would be the fault of the "operator" not the manufacturer because there are no known defective parts involved. Further, the ROA operates exactly like revolvers did back in the Civil War ... a mere 150+ years ago so by now, if you haven't learned how to safely operate them, its no fault of the company. Name just one brand of black powder cap and ball revolver with a transfer bar???? This could be a clue.

Ale-8(1), Back when I was with DOJ, we got stuck with "case review" duty periodically. I always cherry picked my civil cases to review ... mostly those related to the firearms industry. As such, I saw a lot of civil law suits directed at virtually all firearms manufacturers. In most suits, the company would offer a lucrative settlement to avoid court but some of the more important liability suits ended up in court. These were usually related to a defect in material or workmanship that got someone hurt or killed ... not a safety procedural issue. Here's where the Government steps in. If the manufacturer was found to be at fault, BATFE would get involved with the resolution .... often giving the manufacturer two options ... fix it or go out of business. I remember not only Ruger's transfer bar issue but also when Remington was directed to recall their rifles for a bad safety. No doubt, every manufacturer was in the hot seat at one time or another .... and we should be happy about BATFE's involvement. When big $$$ are involved, companies have a way of sweeping problems under the carpet but when ordered to comply by the appropriate Government agency, they usually come through. Guess why Ruger posts the "Bill Board" (safety notice) on their guns? One of the best laws ever passed that involved the shooting industry .... it stated the dealer or manufacturer could not be held liable when guns were misused. Of course manufacturers can still be sued if they produce defective equipment that puts customers in danger but the suits where Bubba says ... "hold my beer and watch this", are no longer valid.

A lot goes on behind the scenes .... just watch the evening news .... seems every week a new automotive recall is announced. It would make you think the car manufacturer was being kind and thoughtful to initiate a "voluntary recall" as part of their customer relations but the fact is .... the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration orders the car manufacturer to fix the problem ... or else! Guns are really no different but instead of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, it's the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives that orders the recall. If a company is smart (like Ruger) they learn from their mistakes. As you will note, the issues with transfer bars involved only Old Model SA revolvers but when Ruger got into the DA revolver market, every DA revolver model ever made has a transfer bar.

I've often wondered about the 357 Maximum .... did Ruger take it off the market or did BATFE order it to be discontinued due to top strap safety issues ... guess we will never know. Some other lesser known Ruger recalls were the 22 Mag cylinders for Bearcat Convertibles and the first Mark III loaded chamber indicator design. Part of Ruger's obligation for the transfer bar conversion was ... any time an OM revolver is returned to the factory for any reason, Ruger is obligated by BATFE's order to do the transfer bar modification. Further, Ruger is still obligated to notify gun owners of the recall via paper work included with each new Ruger firearm. This is not a negotiable issue ... Ruger could lose its manufacturing license if it fails to comply with BATFE. I do commend Ruger for the way they have carried out their part of the deal and still manage to flourish as one of the best firearms companies in the world.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 08:04 PM   #53
 
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Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post

A lot goes on behind the scenes .... just watch the evening news .... seems every week a new automotive recall is announced. It would make you think the car manufacturer was being kind and thoughtful to initiate a "voluntary recall" as part of their customer relations but the fact is .... the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration orders the car manufacturer to fix the problem ... or else! .
That's nonsense. If the government cared about highway safety they would not let the auto industry install distracting features like internet access. Or sell cars that do 2-3 times the max legal speed limit. Or let companies sell radar detectors.

Nobody in government cares about the public. All officials take bribes.
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Old January 21st, 2016, 10:51 PM   #54
 
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Originally Posted by bunnyhugger View Post
That's nonsense. If the government cared about highway safety they would not let the auto industry install distracting features like internet access. Or sell cars that do 2-3 times the max legal speed limit. Or let companies sell radar detectors.

Nobody in government cares about the public. All officials take bribes.
Hooooo, boy... Do you really want to go there? If the government 'really' cared about the public, they wouldn't allow firearms manufacturers to sell any of those 'dangerous' guns that they make. Nothing more than a single-shot, small caliber rifle.

BTW, what is so distracting about a passenger using internet access in a car?

Another thing I thought of about the Old Army pistol: virtually all of them (that are actually shot) are likely 'range toys', used exclusively at the shooting bench. It is likely that very few are stored or carried loaded. Thus, a transfer bar mechanism in them would be a feature with little to no value.
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Old January 22nd, 2016, 06:28 AM   #55
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It appears firescout was right ... back in post #15, I think we have a troll on our hands and besides, this thread has been beat to death so it's time for it to close.
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