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Anyone tried sabots in the ROA?

This is a discussion on Anyone tried sabots in the ROA? within the Black Powder forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; I understand you don't have to use grease. Does that mean you can load up the gun and let it sit for months fully loaded ...


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Old November 24th, 2015, 08:27 AM   #1
 
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Anyone tried sabots in the ROA?

I understand you don't have to use grease. Does that mean you can load up the gun and let it sit for months fully loaded and ready to use.?

Also - does the recoil knock the bullets in the other cylinders out of the sabots?



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Old November 25th, 2015, 11:22 AM   #2
 
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By sabots do you mean plastic cups that hold a ball or bullet? If yes, I advise against it. You do not need grease over the bullet or ball. I usually load 20 to 25 grains of powder, I use FFFg black, but you may choose a BP substitute, a lubed felt wad then the ball. Make sure your ball is large enough to shave a ring of lead as it is pressed into the cylinder. I have never had a ball back out from recoil. If you are starting with a clean unfired gun, you can leave it loaded until you are ready to shoot it. Black powder and all of the substitutes I am aware of are inert and will not cause corrosion, (rust), but once fired they become hydroscopic and slightly acidic and can cause corrosion if not cleaned ASAP........robin
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Old November 25th, 2015, 11:42 AM   #3
 
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I have kept my 58 Remy loaded for months at a time, have never had a misfire, or a problem. As long as he powder is kept dry it will not degrade, or corrode the cylinder, but I do use paper sleeves just in case. Instead of soft lube I use wads dipped in melted bullet lube I use for all my cast bullets. It does not degrade the powder.
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Old November 25th, 2015, 04:29 PM   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAWKEN View Post
By sabots do you mean plastic cups that hold a ball or bullet? If yes, I advise against it. You do not need grease over the bullet or ball. I usually load 20 to 25 grains of powder, I use FFFg black, but you may choose a BP substitute, a lubed felt wad then the ball. Make sure your ball is large enough to shave a ring of lead as it is pressed into the cylinder. I have never had a ball back out from recoil. If you are starting with a clean unfired gun, you can leave it loaded until you are ready to shoot it. Black powder and all of the substitutes I am aware of are inert and will not cause corrosion, (rust), but once fired they become hydroscopic and slightly acidic and can cause corrosion if not cleaned ASAP........robin
Yes that's what i mean by sabots. I saw them in a store the other day - 40 cal bullets with a 45 cal sabot. Lots of them for 50 cal ML rifles but that's the first time i saw them in a handgun caliber.

I'm not concerned with black powder rusting anything. I was concerned that over a month some of the grease might get past the bullet and contaminate the powder. The package in the store said you don't use grease with sabots and i liked that for long term storage of a loaded ROA.. You seem to be saying that even with the usual 45 cal ball pushed into the cylinder, you don't need grease and i'm surprised to hear that.

As for the balls backing out under recoil, i thought that might happen with a sabot. I've never had a problem with that while using the standard 45 cal balls that, of course, don't have a sabot..

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Old November 25th, 2015, 06:42 PM   #5
 
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Originally Posted by bunnyhugger View Post
Yes that's what i mean by sabots. I saw them in a store the other day - 40 cal bullets with a 45 cal sabot...

...You seem to be saying that even with the usual 45 cal ball pushed into the cylinder, you don't need grease and i'm surprised to hear that.

...As for the balls backing out under recoil, i thought that might happen with a sabot. I've never had a problem with that while using the standard 45 cal balls that, of course, don't have a sabot..
Never thought about using a smaller bullet in my ROA, as a regular .457 ball fits and shoots great. And no surprise about not 'needing' grease on the ball. I smear a bit of Precision 2000 lube on the chamber mouths of every third or fourth cylinder full while shooting just to keep the fouling soft when using real BP. When using Triple Seven sub powder, clean up is easy, even without grease. My ROA velocities are reasonable enough, so I see minimal leading of the bore.

I would be concerned about the plastic sabots backing out of the smooth cylinder chambers under recoil if it was tried.
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Old November 25th, 2015, 08:45 PM   #6
 
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Using sabots in a ROA is just WRONG.........on so many levels.....and a sure track to a multi chamber cookoff........chainfire

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Old November 25th, 2015, 09:26 PM   #7
 
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The sabots you saw were probably for a 45 cal. rifle.
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Old November 26th, 2015, 08:25 AM   #8
 
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The sabots you saw were probably for a 45 cal. rifle.
Probably, but i bet people have tried them in handguns.
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Old November 26th, 2015, 09:44 AM   #9
 
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I asked my friend who has been shooting black powder revolvers since we graduated from high school (a looong time ago) and his concern was that bits of the sabot might get squeezed out through the cylinder gap and cause problems. He hasn't used them and doesn't know anyone who does.

That said, the sabot - if it's tight enough in the cylinder - should prevent chain fire. The big question is whether or not the sabot is that tight. That's something you'd have to find out for your particular revolver.



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Old November 27th, 2015, 09:41 AM   #10
 
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It has been pretty well established that chain fires don't come from the chamber end of the cylinder, but from the cap end. That is why the manufacturer put metal tabs or walls between the nipples. If the caps don't fit tightly, a spark from a fired cap can get under the one next to it and cause a chain fire reaction. If you use a lubed wad over the powder and under the ball there is no way for a spark to enter. If the ball you load is large enough to leave a ring of lead as it is swaged into the cylinder the safety factor is doubled.........robin
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Old November 27th, 2015, 10:45 AM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by HAWKEN View Post
It has been pretty well established that chain fires don't come from the chamber end of the cylinder, but from the cap end. That is why the manufacturer put metal tabs or walls between the nipples. If the caps don't fit tightly, a spark from a fired cap can get under the one next to it and cause a chain fire reaction. If you use a lubed wad over the powder and under the ball there is no way for a spark to enter. If the ball you load is large enough to leave a ring of lead as it is swaged into the cylinder the safety factor is doubled.........robin
+1
I stopped using lubed wads over the powder, and have not had any 'chainfire' issues in my two revolvers. I did make sure the caps fit the nipples tightly by trying different size/make caps and polishing the machining grooves off a set of nipples in my Pietta revolver. That allows for the Remington #10 caps to be easily and tightly seated, more-so than originally provided. The original stainless ROA nipples work just fine with #11 CCI or Remington caps.

And more thoughts on the sabot in a cap-and-ball revolver: the plastic sabot is meant to be loaded into a rifled bore and held tightly against the powder charge, 'wedged' in the rifling of the rifle or pistol.
I don't think it would be secure enough in the smooth chambers of a cap-and-ball revolver.
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Old November 27th, 2015, 01:10 PM   #12
 
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"I don't think it would be secure enough in the smooth chambers of a cap-and-ball revolver"

and that will increase the possibility of a chainfire.....not to mention that recoil will no doubt allow bullet creep and lockup of cylinder...

but it is correct most chain fires do happen from the cap/nipple end of the cylinder...
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Old April 24th, 2016, 02:57 PM   #13
 
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sabots are for rifles pour pyrodex Pistol in clean cylinder, seat wonder wad seat ball no grease cap when ready to fire
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Old May 4th, 2016, 07:39 PM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunnyhugger View Post
Probably, but i bet people have tried them in handguns.
You cannot use Sabots in a pistol be a huge explosion Sabots are for rifles.
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