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Premium grade and match grade ammo

This is a discussion on Premium grade and match grade ammo within the Ammo Dump forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Hey guys so i know about the ammo types but some people get match grade and premium grade ammo mixed up and to keep it ...


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Old February 22nd, 2013, 12:29 PM   #1
 
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Premium grade and match grade ammo

Hey guys so i know about the ammo types but some people get match grade and premium grade ammo mixed up and to keep it what im talking about im talking about 22lr not anything else so bulk ammo is the cheap high velocity we see for example remington gold, premium grade is the higher end high velocity ammo like mini mags or velociters and all hyper velocity is premium also (off topic but what doesnt make sense is mini mags are 36 grains and velociters are the fastest 40 grain but velociters with a 1435 fps is faster then the 36 grain at 1260 fps which isnt normal most the time heavier is slower but not in this case thats just the desighn bc one is small game and the other is varmit) now back on track so whats left is match grade whitch is slower at standard velocity like green tag cci competition so tell me if im right on all this info so i can make sure im straight on everything and so others can read and figure it out also thanks guys




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Old February 22nd, 2013, 01:08 PM   #2
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I think the most accurate 22 ammo is sub-sonic. Super-sonic 22 ammo is okay within about 80 yards but after that it goes sub-sonic. Bullets are just like airplanes and will undergo buffeting right at the speed of sound. For that reason I like Velocitors if I'm shooting 22's beyond 80 yards because they will remain super-sonic out further.

The Stinger barrel muzzle speed is faster than the Velocitor but will be going slower at about 120 yards.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 01:25 PM   #3
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 303lithgow View Post
I think the most accurate 22 ammo is sub-sonic. Super-sonic 22 ammo is okay within about 80 yards but after that it goes sub-sonic. Bullets are just like airplanes and will undergo buffeting right at the speed of sound. For that reason I like Velocitors if I'm shooting 22's beyond 80 yards because they will remain super-sonic out further.

The Stinger barrel muzzle speed is faster than the Velocitor but will be going slower at about 120 yards.
Yes i didnt even mention subsonics i should have they are the most accurate period may not shoot as far but they will shoot farther then 99% of people. And yes super sonics can start to "fly" and move when breaking the sound barrier and then going back below the sound barrier
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 01:58 PM   #4
 
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I use match grade when practicing for or in a match.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 02:51 PM   #5
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Tllrugerjunky, It's hard to make heads or tails out of your post. All match grade ammo is "Standard Velocity" but not all Standard Velocity ammo is match grade . The difference is ... match grade ammo has .221" bullets, very uniform 40gr bullets, and very uniform powder charges whereas non-match grade Standard Velocity will have .222" bullets and won't be as uniform.

303lithgow, Somewhere along the line, you got fed a line of crap. Going sub-sonic has no affect on accuracy ... just another gun myth. If it were true, I wouldn't be getting mouse ear groups at 75 yards or more with High Velocity 22 LRs.

Here's the actual info on different CCI 22 loads fired from a 20" rifle barrel:
BTW, the speed of sound is about 1150 fps, +or- a little depending on altitude, temperature, and humidity.

Standard Velocity 40gr: MV=1070 fps, 977 fps @ 50 yds, 940 fps @ 75 yds, 908 fps @100 yds. Starts out sub-sonic.
High Velocity 40gr: MV=1235 fps, 1092 fps @ 50 yds, 1040 fps @ 75 yds, 998 fps @ 100 yds. Goes sub-sonic at 29 yds.
High Velocity 36gr: MV=1260 fps, 1104 fps @ 50 yds, 1048 fps @ 75 yds, 1003 fps @ 100 yds. Goes sub-sonic at 32 yds.
Hyper Velocity 32gr: MV=1640 fps, 1292 fps @ 50 yds, 1162 fps @ 75 yds, 1066 fps @ 100 yds. Goes sub-sonic at 47 yds.

Chronographs are your friends ... otherwise check CCI's web site CCI Ammunition - View All CCI Loads

Other brands of 22 ammo will be very close to CCI. Some brands may have slightly higher or lower MV or slightly higher or lower BCs but all brands will track sub-sonic within a few yards of the above. As you can see ... even the very fastest cartridge CCI makes will go sub-sonic in less than 50 yards.

Last edited by Iowegan; February 22nd, 2013 at 03:01 PM.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 03:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
Tllrugerjunky, It's hard to make heads or tails out of your post. All match grade ammo is "Standard Velocity" but not all Standard Velocity ammo is match grade . The difference is ... match grade ammo has .221" bullets, very uniform 40gr bullets, and very uniform powder charges whereas non-match grade Standard Velocity will have .222" bullets and won't be as uniform.

303lithgow, Somewhere along the line, you got fed a line of crap. Going sub-sonic has no affect on accuracy ... just another gun myth. If it were true, I wouldn't be getting mouse ear groups at 75 yards or more with High Velocity 22 LRs.

Here's the actual info on different CCI 22 loads fired from a 20" rifle barrel:
BTW, the speed of sound is about 1150 fps, +or- a little depending on altitude, temperature, and humidity.

Standard Velocity 40gr: MV=1070 fps, 977 fps @ 50 yds, 940 fps @ 75 yds, 908 fps @100 yds. Starts out sub-sonic.
High Velocity 40gr: MV=1235 fps, 1092 fps @ 50 yds, 1040 fps @ 75 yds, 998 fps @ 100 yds. Goes sub-sonic at 29 yds.
High Velocity 36gr: MV=1260 fps, 1104 fps @ 50 yds, 1048 fps @ 75 yds, 1003 fps @ 100 yds. Goes sub-sonic at 32 yds.
Hyper Velocity 32gr: MV=1640 fps, 1292 fps @ 50 yds, 1162 fps @ 75 yds, 1066 fps @ 100 yds. Goes sub-sonic at 47 yds.

Chronographs are your friends ... otherwise check CCI's web site CCI Ammunition - View All CCI Loads

Other brands of 22 ammo will be very close to CCI. Some brands may have slightly higher or lower MV or slightly higher or lower BCs but all brands will track sub-sonic within a few yards of the above. As you can see ... even the very fastest cartridge CCI makes will go sub-sonic in less than 50 yards.
Are those Mickey Mouse ears? Sorry had to ask.

I wonder why match grade isn't super-sonic?
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 03:21 PM   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
Tllrugerjunky, It's hard to make heads or tails out of your post. All match grade ammo is "Standard Velocity" but not all Standard Velocity ammo is match grade . The difference is ... match grade ammo has .221" bullets, very uniform 40gr bullets, and very uniform powder charges whereas non-match grade Standard Velocity will have .222" bullets and won't be as uniform.

303lithgow, Somewhere along the line, you got fed a line of crap. Going sub-sonic has no affect on accuracy ... just another gun myth. If it were true, I wouldn't be getting mouse ear groups at 75 yards or more with High Velocity 22 LRs.

Here's the actual info on different CCI 22 loads fired from a 20" rifle barrel:
BTW, the speed of sound is about 1150 fps, +or- a little depending on altitude, temperature, and humidity.

Standard Velocity 40gr: MV=1070 fps, 977 fps @ 50 yds, 940 fps @ 75 yds, 908 fps @100 yds. Starts out sub-sonic.
High Velocity 40gr: MV=1235 fps, 1092 fps @ 50 yds, 1040 fps @ 75 yds, 998 fps @ 100 yds. Goes sub-sonic at 29 yds.
High Velocity 36gr: MV=1260 fps, 1104 fps @ 50 yds, 1048 fps @ 75 yds, 1003 fps @ 100 yds. Goes sub-sonic at 32 yds.
Hyper Velocity 32gr: MV=1640 fps, 1292 fps @ 50 yds, 1162 fps @ 75 yds, 1066 fps @ 100 yds. Goes sub-sonic at 47 yds.

Chronographs are your friends ... otherwise check CCI's web site CCI Ammunition - View All CCI Loads

Other brands of 22 ammo will be very close to CCI. Some brands may have slightly higher or lower MV or slightly higher or lower BCs but all brands will track sub-sonic within a few yards of the above. As you can see ... even the very fastest cartridge CCI makes will go sub-sonic in less than 50 yards.
Well iowegan your the guy to ask and answer with my point thats what i was saying or trying to lol but is that the only difference the diameter? Bc otherwise inless u have a match grade barrel it becomes just another round almost and i actually created this thread because of a comment u had on premium ammo worth it? I was reading it and got confused between what the difference is between match grade and premium ammo so if u could clarify that for sure whitch i think i know the difference that would answer my question. Im basicly double checking myself with your answer lol(:
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 08:23 PM   #8
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303lithgow, As you may know, I like to throw in a little history ... just to make things interesting (at least for me). In this case, history has a lot to do with your question.
Quote:
I wonder why match grade isn't super-sonic?
When 22 Long Rifle ammo first started being made, it was loaded with black powder. About 1050 fps was the fastest a 40 grain bullet could be pushed. Decades later as smokeless powder was developed, 22 LRs could be loaded to higher velocities. The original loads at 1050 fps were later loaded with smokeless powder and called STANDARD VELOCITY. 22 LR ammo was loaded about 200 fps faster and was called HIGH VELOCITY. So ... it's really just "tradition" and has nothing to do with sonic or sub-sonic. As match grade ammo was developed, it has always been made to the old Standard Velocity specs and your guess is as good as mine as to why.

If you spend as much time at the range as I have, a lot of valuable information will come your way. Yes, Internet information can be accurate but it is often mixed with gun myths, theories, and other misinformation .... so you don't really know what to believe. When you spend a lot of time chronographing ammo, shooting groups, taking good notes, and maintain the data from each load, things start coming together. As a good example: because 22 LR match grade ammo has very uniform bullet weights and diameters, very consistent priming compound, and very uniform powder weights, it will chronograph with max velocity spreads of about 25 fps. Premium grade 22 LR will chronograph with a max spread of about 50 fps. Some bulk grade ammo is hard pressed to stay under 100 fps spreads. So which one do you think has the best potential for accuracy? Obviously match grade because it has the lowest max velocity spreads. BTW, modern 22 LRs marketed solely as "sub-sonic" are not match grade, rather they are a premium grade Standard Velocity intended for rifles or pistols with suppressors (silencers).

Next come the barrels themselves. Match grade barrels are made with a .221" bore and very snug chambers. When you shoot match grade ammo in a match grade barrel, accuracy will be optimum. Standard barrels made by different manufactures can vary quite a bit in bore diameter and chamber dimensions. You are more likely to get one with a generous chamber and a loose bore so in general, .222" High Velocity 22 LR ammo will shoot best in a standard barrel. However you may get lucky and get a tight bore with a tight chamber where match grade ammo shoots better. This is one of the main reasons why some guns prefer one brand over another .... it's simply a matter of matching the ammo to the barrel. My Remington 511 bolt action 22 (standard production) will shoot CCI Mini-Mags just as tight as my match grade CZ 452 with match grade Wolf ammo at any distance. If I shoot Wolf match grade ammo in my Remington or Mini-Mags in my CZ, the groups will open up considerably with both guns.

Let's throw another thing into the mix .... distance. At closer distances, most any 22 LR ammo (yes, even cheap bulk pack stuff) will group pretty darn good. At 50 yards, you will start seeing a difference in group size between premium or bulk pack and at 75 yards, it becomes very obvious. The farther the shooting distance, the more obvious it becomes. Groups will open and "fliers" will be common with cheaper bulk pack ammo.

Tllrugerjunky, Yes, it does get confusing. Match grade ammo is a step above premium grade. Mostly because it has very precision bullets, priming compound, and powder charges but also because it has .221" bullets. Match grade ammo is usually very expensive. Premium grade ammo is pretty good stuff ... typically way better overall quality than bulk grade. You will find premium grade ammo has more uniform bullets and powder charges than bulk grade .... but not as good as match grade. Yes, you can still get an occasional dud or a pop instead of a bang but in general, premium ammo is just a better grade and costs more than bulk grade. Some examples of premium grade 22 LR ammo would be: CCI Mini-Mags, Winchester Super X, or Remington Green Box ("U" headstamp). Some examples of bulk grade ammo would be: Remington Bulk Pack ("REM" headstamp), Federal Bulk Pack, or Winchester Bulk Pack (333 or 555). Examples of match grade ammo would be: Wolff Target Match, Winchester T-22, CCI Green Tag.

Last edited by Iowegan; February 22nd, 2013 at 08:27 PM.
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Old February 22nd, 2013, 08:38 PM   #9
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Thanks for the info. I've only tried to be accurate with a 22 in the last few years. I've always used 30.06, 303 British, or 7.62 to shoot at distance. To me the 22 was just for plinking -if I could hit a tin can at 50 yards I was happy. I didn't care if it was dead center or off to the side, as long as it went "plink" I was happy.

But now I'm trying to get the best groups at 50 yards.
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Old February 23rd, 2013, 12:41 PM   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
303lithgow, As you may know, I like to throw in a little history ... just to make things interesting (at least for me). In this case, history has a lot to do with your question. When 22 Long Rifle ammo first started being made, it was loaded with black powder. About 1050 fps was the fastest a 40 grain bullet could be pushed. Decades later as smokeless powder was developed, 22 LRs could be loaded to higher velocities. The original loads at 1050 fps were later loaded with smokeless powder and called STANDARD VELOCITY. 22 LR ammo was loaded about 200 fps faster and was called HIGH VELOCITY. So ... it's really just "tradition" and has nothing to do with sonic or sub-sonic. As match grade ammo was developed, it has always been made to the old Standard Velocity specs and your guess is as good as mine as to why.

If you spend as much time at the range as I have, a lot of valuable information will come your way. Yes, Internet information can be accurate but it is often mixed with gun myths, theories, and other misinformation .... so you don't really know what to believe. When you spend a lot of time chronographing ammo, shooting groups, taking good notes, and maintain the data from each load, things start coming together. As a good example: because 22 LR match grade ammo has very uniform bullet weights and diameters, very consistent priming compound, and very uniform powder weights, it will chronograph with max velocity spreads of about 25 fps. Premium grade 22 LR will chronograph with a max spread of about 50 fps. Some bulk grade ammo is hard pressed to stay under 100 fps spreads. So which one do you think has the best potential for accuracy? Obviously match grade because it has the lowest max velocity spreads. BTW, modern 22 LRs marketed solely as "sub-sonic" are not match grade, rather they are a premium grade Standard Velocity intended for rifles or pistols with suppressors (silencers).

Next come the barrels themselves. Match grade barrels are made with a .221" bore and very snug chambers. When you shoot match grade ammo in a match grade barrel, accuracy will be optimum. Standard barrels made by different manufactures can vary quite a bit in bore diameter and chamber dimensions. You are more likely to get one with a generous chamber and a loose bore so in general, .222" High Velocity 22 LR ammo will shoot best in a standard barrel. However you may get lucky and get a tight bore with a tight chamber where match grade ammo shoots better. This is one of the main reasons why some guns prefer one brand over another .... it's simply a matter of matching the ammo to the barrel. My Remington 511 bolt action 22 (standard production) will shoot CCI Mini-Mags just as tight as my match grade CZ 452 with match grade Wolf ammo at any distance. If I shoot Wolf match grade ammo in my Remington or Mini-Mags in my CZ, the groups will open up considerably with both guns.

Let's throw another thing into the mix .... distance. At closer distances, most any 22 LR ammo (yes, even cheap bulk pack stuff) will group pretty darn good. At 50 yards, you will start seeing a difference in group size between premium or bulk pack and at 75 yards, it becomes very obvious. The farther the shooting distance, the more obvious it becomes. Groups will open and "fliers" will be common with cheaper bulk pack ammo.

Tllrugerjunky, Yes, it does get confusing. Match grade ammo is a step above premium grade. Mostly because it has very precision bullets, priming compound, and powder charges but also because it has .221" bullets. Match grade ammo is usually very expensive. Premium grade ammo is pretty good stuff ... typically way better overall quality than bulk grade. You will find premium grade ammo has more uniform bullets and powder charges than bulk grade .... but not as good as match grade. Yes, you can still get an occasional dud or a pop instead of a bang but in general, premium ammo is just a better grade and costs more than bulk grade. Some examples of premium grade 22 LR ammo would be: CCI Mini-Mags, Winchester Super X, or Remington Green Box ("U" headstamp). Some examples of bulk grade ammo would be: Remington Bulk Pack ("REM" headstamp), Federal Bulk Pack, or Winchester Bulk Pack (333 or 555). Examples of match grade ammo would be: Wolff Target Match, Winchester T-22, CCI Green Tag.
Thank u once again u never fail to answer i have cci green tag havnt shot any yet so idk how they shoot. It doesnt say anything about match grade on the box how can i tell its match grade ammo vs premium besides just memorizing the different types? Bulk ammo vs premium is very easy to figure out but i want to know a good way to tell the difference between match grade and premium by just picking up to boxes and lets say one is match and the other is premium but they dont say is there any way?
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