Amishman44

Hornady's 110 grain FTX JHP is a fantastic round in .38+P! Recoil is managable and accuracy is as good as your gun! Penetration and expansion is excellent and reliability is beyond-compare!

Federal's 129 grain JHP Hydra-Shok is an excellent round as well!

kiwihunter

My thoughts exactly shootist....theres folk around here that enjoy taking a contrary point just for the sake of it if you say white they say black if you say day they will say night....your flogging a dead horse trying to make a point with them ,best leave them to there plastic jug vids and get out into the woods or down the range and actually burn some powder.

ditto1958

I'm kind of asking myself this very same question today. I bought a S&W SD9 recently. It is a very nice gun, positioned just below the M&P series guns. It performs flawlessly with regular old FMJ round nose ammo, but the brand of HP's I have tried so far are a dismal failure.

I spent $30 on a box of DRT 85gr frangibles. They are high velocity, about 1400 fps, and when I have shot gallon jugs filled with water with them the results are very impressive. The problem? FTF about 2 out of every 5 shots fired.

I cleaned and lubed the gun before firing it the first time, and have thoroughly cleaned it two more times since then. Since it runs the other ammo fine (2 or 3 different brands), it's not the gun.

Finding a reliable brand of HP's for my gun could be very expensive. Meanwhile, I feel a lot safer relying on plain old ball ammo. We live out in the country. The chances of shooting an innocent bystander are low. I'm pretty sure if I shoot a bad guy enough times (the mag holds 16 rounds, plus you can put one in the chamber), he will stop bothering me.

shootist

Your so right and you know it too!

Bigdog

Will the cost of finding a reliable brand of HP's be more expensive than if you would have purchased an M&P that will reliably shoot anything? Not trying to sound harsh but I don't understand why people will not purchase a high quality weapon in the first place.

NCLEO89

My two cents: Any bullet, from any caliber firearm, can fail to stop the BG. History shows this to be true. As I understand it, a big reason we have JHPs is to lessen the possibility of over-penetration. Experts like Ayoob also strongly recommend that you do not use your reloads for defensive purposes. He's been around the litigation / prosecution block enough times that I believe him. That said, I say that you should pick whatever factory JHP load that you can comfortably, accurately use, and worry more about training, tactics, and marksmanship.

bwinters

Any 357 load must use a hollowpoint or expanding point to avoid severe over penetration. swc out of a 357 will penetrate 24-28 inches of tissue think about how deep you are front to back. i am 280 lbs 5 ft 9 inch and I am barely 17 inches from to back.

bsms

You DO realize you are comparing a RIFLE cartridge with a HANDGUN...how many guys consider a 357 to be too powerful for hunting deer?

If you shoot a bad guy and the bullet goes thru and hits someone with enough force to kill them, that comes under an act of God. I have never heard of a case where a person was killed by a handgun bullet that first passed thru another person.

If you miss and hit someone, then you are right up there with the NYC Police. But if your life was in danger, and you weren't deliberately spraying bullets around, you're likely to be OK in Arizona. AND if you missed, then ANY SD round has the potential to kill someone, including a 22 LR!

Personally, I want enough penetration to think it is likely a HIT will penetrate deep enough to do enough damage. The cartridge I recommended from BuffaloBore is designed to give about 14" of penetration, with is consistent with what the FBI recommends.

Also - the purpose of hollowpoints is to make a bigger hole.

opos

I run Speer gold dot 38Special +P in everything in the house and that I carry around home when I do carry here....Lots of reasons for that....plenty of power, plenty of expansion, the 38 special gives me a better chance for a quick second shot if needed, in a dark room the 38 will probably not flash as much and I might have better vision for the second shot....and finally the 38 Gold Dots are easier on this old guy when I go to the range....I normally shoot a number of plinking rounds and then end the session with a couple of cylinders of the Gold Dots. Just the way I do things...everyone has their preference and this is mine.

Broken Bear

on these ideas:
1. The Geneva convention requires "ball" small arms munitions of it's signers as the signers agreed that a wounded combatant would by nature take from the battlefield not only the wounded soldier but also other combatants to help said soldier..not for the humanitarian reasons that are given for the "short answer"
SO IN THIS case expanding munitions that impart the majority of it's energy upon it's FIRST target kills the crap out of folks! PERIOD END OF STATEMENT

2. My son in law [forgive me] was once a district attorney/prosecuter ....
whatever Va calls them and now a trial lawyer ....I once posed the carrying of reloads in a SD gun and his retort was he could not keep me from prison in Virginia because the DA/PA would immediately establish "intent" by me to purposely construct munitions to "kill and mame" and "further to find it's use" as in the case before the court ...now I do not know if this is BS ...BS in Va only ...not BS or somewhere in between but I guran-dam-tee you I sure as heck am not about to test it just to save $20.

3. Bullets all have to be proven to your specific application as to situation and gun....every cussed bullet and load has a mission ...why would you think you can take a 38+P bullet out of a 4 or more inch tube that an armored car guard has in his gun in expectation of a possible perp with heavy clothing/coats to hide weaponry and then you to get satisfactory results with your 2" snubby on a guy in a tee shirt ....Pards this ammo is not a do-all product ...you know # 9's for skeet ...#7 1/2's for trap ...#6's rabbits n squirrls ...#4's ducks on down to slugs for grizzes ...same on bullets ...whichever one puts the most energy IN THE TARGET gets the nod .

4. To #3's point my everyday CCW is a 9mm 2" 8 shot compact that weighs 14oz dry ...my first 3 are 115 gr "blow up HP's" ...next 3 are 124gr HP that go a bit deeper ...last are 2 147gr FMJ's ...all factory ...each one ramping up penetration ...but the first 3 ought to anchor all but armor or barricade ....yes ...9mm is light fare ...but better than none which is what it would be half the time if I had the heft and aggravation of my .40 or 45 all the time

BACK to the OP's post ...no fits all ...sorry ...you have to find the one for your barrel length,shooting distances,winter summer, barricade or open,rural or populated etc etc ...the list goes on and on and if ...if ever you do become a real life shooter and have to defend it ...you had better know the reasons for every conscience decision you have made before you ever carry

Bear

guardjim

As for frangible ammo, from everything I've read on them, they make a very impressive area of surface damage but fail to penetrate enough to do any serious organ damage. This is made worse by heavy clothing.
For you NRA members who receive the "Ameican Rifleman", you can find an interesting article on handgun stopping power in the September 2012 issue beginning on page 50. Not the end all on bullet performance, but what is?

Lead Slanger

First, I'm not comparing a rifle round to a handgun round. I was just using that as an example because I saw that first hand. It was shot from my rifle. That's not something that somebody's best friends uncles cousin said. The fact is that bullets that don't expand go a long ways and leave a little hole. They enter and they exit. That's all I was saying.

Second, I do know guys that handgun hunt with a .357 Magnum.

Next, It doesn't have to kill 'em to get your butt locked up. All you have to do is hit 'em.

Not everyone lives in Arizona. There are several states that are not near as pro gun as Arizona is.

I never said anything about missing either. I'm talkin' about hits on target. I know a guy that was shot by AD with a .25 FMJ. It entered four or five inches above his navel and stopped two inches from his anus. A weak little .25 with a FMJ nearly passed through. I would be willing to bet that a .357 that doesn't expand won't have a hard time going on through.

Lastly, any self defense round is gonna penetrate enough and has a lesser chance of a pass through than a JSP or a FMJ. That's all there is to that.

MidLife

wow.....

Just what are munitions for?

It's so far fetched.

It's just like at my local Walmart.

They don't carry the "dangerous" ammo....

Go figure.

leftofcentre67

GunLover

I was just thinking the same thing. So I guess I should be carrying target ammo since I just wanted to hit my target not kill it. And the deal with the millitary only using ball ammo is confusing because they have no problem shooting someone with a 50 cal.