i will NEVER Buy federal hydrashock again NOONE should
This is a discussion on i will NEVER Buy federal hydrashock again NOONE should within the Ammo Dump forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; I quit using the Hydra Shocks because they fed horribly in my S&W 5946. I switched to Gold Dot's and never looked back....
About 10 years ago, I went on a quest for the best bullets and the best testing procedures. After spending lots of money on factory ammo, I came to some conclusions. No one bullet design or brand performed well in all test media (wet newspapers, water jugs, duct seal, fine sand, boards, etc). Although flesh and bones make the best test media, I thought it best not to test bullets on humans, however I knew a few people that would have been good candidates.
I discussed my tests with a medical professional and fellow shooter that has been doing emergency room gun shot victim treatment for many years. The answers became apparent ... seems muscle, fat, bones, clothing, distance, and velocity all have a huge impact on how bullets actually perform. What may be an impressive expansion in one type of media may result in no expansion at all in another type of media. Likewise, a bullet that expands too fast will not penetrate far enough to create a big wound channel. One bullet may perform very well at close distances but fail to perform at longer distances. The optimum bullet would have both good expansion and good penetration at normal shooting distances in all types of media. Let me know if you ever find that magic combination.
The doctor told me most hollow point bullets didn't open up at all while others of the same brand in the same victim performed quite well. The difference was ... what was in the bullet's path and how far away was the victim.
So for me, the above test really doesn't prove much. If you test the same two loads in several types of media and find one bullet consistently out performs the other, then you can draw some conclusions.
frosty, I have gotten similar results with the Federal ammo. In ALL my carry guns I only load with the Winchester Ranger ammo. Never had a disappointing test with the Ranger.
Incidently, my tests were also done with 1 gallon water jugs.
Last edited by JerzeeDude; June 17th, 2011 at 05:46 PM.
Reason: added text
NOTE: 147gr std pressure will have much less of an opportunity to expand than a friggen laser of a 127gr +P. No big deal, user error in the analysis of the competitance of the Federal Hydroshok. this is silly, hydroshoks work well
Thats one hell of an expansion for a 9mm literally doubled its width.
Hydrashok- width. 43" height. 62"
only expanded 2mms and parts of the jacket fragmented and were in the water in small peices where the ranger t expanded almost 9mms.
Thanks for the imput iowgan. Tomorrow i will take some phone books wet newspaper and sand and try a few more test in my back yard. And see how ot does compared to the ranger t in otherb aituations.
But as i said a few times this was just to see how well they expanded amd shot out of my gun i wanted to make sure they cycled too. This was juat a very surprising result
And use what ever ammo you want to protect yourself i honestly dont care what anyone of you use. If you like hydroshoks then go ahead and think this is silly. It doesnt bother me either way. I just think numbers dont lie and ive yet to see a ranger t have this problem. But this is not the first time i heard of this with the hydrashoks. Also people have the same problem with hornadys crit defense. And i posted the measurements you cant deny it had problems it may be a bad bullet from the factory it may have been my short barrel om mu sr9c either way its not carry worthy. Plain and simple you can defend it all you want but my life is worth enough that one in 20 for failure to expand is to great to risk that one life saving shot on.(1 in 20 coming from assuming the rest of the 19 in the box are fine and will expand). And also my ranger t ammo i have yet to see a simple test that they failed to expand but have seen plenty of great expanded ones.
If you like the shoks good for you use them by all means you dont have to post negative things about me because i had a obvious one the failed. I just want to share my experience with everyone so they can see some real problems. I did not male up things i posted pictures and stats if you believe a 2mm expansion is good. Then maybe i am wrong but my personal beleif is a 2mm expansion and failure to mushroom and fully expand is a total failure and a 9mm expansion is a huge success. But hey maybe im wrong ill just post my stats and take it for what it cost you nothing. Just dont post negitive things about me on my thread trying to give free info amd problems i had with a type of ammo.
Sorry i am posting this from my phone and my phone does not liie this site and has freezing and wont let me backspaces so my grammer and spelling is horrible sorry.
Last edited by frostbitten09; June 17th, 2011 at 06:34 PM.
Try comparing apples to apples, not apples and oranges. Your comparing the expansion of a 124 gr +P HP with a 147gr HP, not really a realistic or fair compairson. The 124gr is designed for good expansion combined with moderate penetration at increased veloscity, where as the 147gr was designed more for penetration with minimal expansion. It's like compareing a 165/185gr +P to a 230gr in 45 ACP and then complaining that the 165/185gr bullet doesnt penetrate as deep as the 230gr, or the 230 doesn't expand as violently as the 165/185gr offering. So before you condem the federal offering try compairing the 124gr offerings side by side, and then draw your conclusions. That being said my prefered rounds for my SR-9c are the Gold Dot 124gr +P SB HP, or the Corbon 125gr +P HP.
Last edited by cwl1862; June 17th, 2011 at 06:37 PM.
Hmm.., looking at the picture, whats the big deal? They both opened, I sure wouldn't have wanted to be in front of either. Dude I'm sorry but I think you over reacted a touch. Fed. Hydra-shocks are not my brand for carry anyway. In a carry situation I would hate to have a pass through injure or kill an innocent bystander, and I hope neither would anyone else here. On your next test put some layers of clothing in front of the jugs and see if they clog up and if they still expand. I carry Corbon powerball's in my carry weapons or Blue Glasser's in my snubbie 38+p. Take pics and let us know, and use the same layers as a normal person would have like denim, a tee shirt and maybe a patch of carhart.
Frostbitten -
Rugerismisticness makes a very valid point regarding bullet performance - keep in mind the difference in velocity and bullet construction. ESPECIALLY if you insist on carrying a 9mm for defense.
If you REALLY want some definitative answers as to what's the most effective fight stopper - round up a copy of Marshall & Sanow'w book "Hangun Stopping Power - the Definative Study". It surveys +20 years of the ACTUAL results of LE and civilian shootings, under any and all circumstances. It's quite "enlightening" to say the least.
For your edification, the following is an excerpt from that book in regards to 9mm "stopping power".
Table 8-4 (page 62)
9 mm +P and +P+ Actual Results.
The Results are ammunition 1st, Total shootings w/that ammunition 2nd, One shot stops 3rd, % One-Shot Stops 4th, & Velocity 5th.
Fed 115 gr. JHP +P+ 56 50 89.29% 1,304 fps.
WW 115 gr. JHP +P+ 51 45 88.24% 1,299 fps.
R-P 115 gr. JHP +P+ 15 13 86.67% 1,283 fps.
Geco 86 gr. BHP (BAT) 85 70 82.35% 1,493 fps.
Fed 124 gr. LHP-Nyclad 106 87 82.08% 1,101 fps.
Fed 124 gr. Hydra-Shok +P+ 22 18 81.82% 1,264 fps.
Fed 115 gr. JHP 127 103 81.10% 1,177 fps.
WW 115 gr. STHP 211 167 79.15% 1,204 fps.
R-P 115 gr. JHP 106 81 76.42% 1,163 fps.
Fed 147 gr. JHP 16 12 75.00% 985 fps.
Fed 124 gr. Hydra-Shok 21 16 76.19% 1,118 fps.
CCI 115 gr. JHP 71 51 71.83% 1,145 fps.
Fed 147 gr. Hydra-Shok 49 35 71.43% 988 fps.
WW 147 gr. JHP 89 61 68.54% 987 fps.
Hornady 90 gr. JHP 25 16 64.00% 1,305 fps.
Hornady 115 gr. JHP 32 20 62.50% 1,126 fps.
WW 115 gr. FMJ 148 90 60.81% 1,149 fps.
That book is a "must read" for anyone who seriously wants to know about "real world" events regarding their favorite handgun caliber and how it's "fight stopping" power REALLY stacks up. ALL hollow points can and will fail under the right (or wrong!) circumstances. Somewhere you've got to balance expansion with penetration - cause one without the other just ain't worth a plugged nichol!
As for myself, water jugs, wet phone books, etc. don't hold a candle to the real thing. But what do I know - I'm old fashioned and am not much interested in any handgun caliber that doesn't start with a "4"! Having said that: FYI - THE BEST ONE SHOT FIGHT STOPPER IS A .357 MAG. WITH JUST ABOUT ANY 125 GR. JHP.
Remember - Identify your target - shot straight - and concentrate on that front sight!
Try comparing apples to apples, not apples and oranges. Your comparing the expansion of a 124 gr +P HP with a 147gr HP, not really a realistic or fair compairson. The 124gr is designed for good expansion combined with moderate penetration at increased veloscity, where as the 147gr was designed more for penetration with minimal expansion. It's like compareing a 165/185gr +P to a 230gr in 45 ACP and then complaining that the 165/185gr bullet doesnt penetrate as deep as the 230gr, or the 230 doesn't expand as violently as the 165/185gr offering. So before you condem the federal offering try compairing the 124gr offerings side by side, and then draw your conclusions. That being said my prefered rounds for my SR-9c are the Gold Dot 124gr +P SB HP, or the Corbon 125gr +P HP.
I think you failed to read all my posts i was not comparing the two i was actually stating how each reacted.
I STATED that the federal failed to expand and mushroom multiple yimes. It expanded to. 42". It also only penetrater abou 6 to 8 inche. It deformed but did not expand or open like it should.
I think everybody is failing to see the point and putting biased replys on here. No high quality jhp should only expand 2mm and not mushroom. The point is that it did not do what its suppose to do look up how they should expand and look compared to how mine looks and its size comparisions. they are way off by a long shot.
I wish everyone would read all the post and realize the point trying to be made and not comr in biased. The point is i will not carry a type of ammunition that cant do what it can and should do. And the only comparison is that the 124gr fully mushroomed and expanded very well and also comparing 9mm ammo to 9 mm ammo is apple to apples. Maybe granny smith apples to red apples but its the same caliber therefore can be compared together. If someone asked what carry ammo do you recommend you dont say blah blah for 115gr blah blah for 124 blah for 127 blah for 147 blah for 80 90 and so on and list every grain possible you just say one type of 9mm ammo.
Also i did say i would recommened everybody to get the ranger t 124 +p and i will use it in every mag i use for sd in my 9c.
Heres a picture from the side to show how it did jot kushroom
federal produces excellent ammo.... pull your head out of your cooroo....winchester, remington, hornady, etc.,have all made some lemons too as have most companies that have made 147's........ any of the 115's-125's will be stepping out fast enough with almost all makers and modern expanding projectiles to create expansion even without +p performance. The 147 grain brainiac idea was gone with the 80's and early 90's. Supposedly a good subsonic round for sub-guns and air marshals.... guess what, I still wouldn't want somebody to place a well aimed shot at me with one.... oops did I mention shot placement?
Interesting discussion. Lots of good info on here.
I think I will start carrying a holster vest like Noah in Boondock Saints, loaded with various brands of ammo so I can be sure to have the right tool for the specific material I need to be shooting through.
I did read all of the posts, my point is that your condeming a whole product line (Federal Hydra-Shocks) based only on the performance of one round. Second you are comparing the performance of a 124gr +P HP against the performance of a 147gr HP two totally different designs, and velocities, designed for different purposes, and then condeming Federal ammo as junk. Actually the first 147gr 9mm rounds were designed for use in SMG's. and Federals 147gr offering performes pretty much the same as all of the other 147gr loads. Personally I would not carry any 147gr load no matter who makes it. Again compare similiar rounds 124 vs 124, 115 vs 115, STD vel vs +P etc. Apples to Apples. And you'll see that most of the modern 9mm 115 -124gr HP's either +P or STD Vel perform just about the same when comparable bullet weights are equal. Expecting a slower heaver bullet to perform identically to a lighter faster round is not realistic. Compareing a 124 to a 147 irregardless if they both are 9mm isn't (Apples to Apples) the two rounds couldn't be more dissimiliar. (Apples to Oranges)
Last edited by cwl1862; June 17th, 2011 at 07:54 PM.
I am steppibg out of this thread because it seems alot of wannabee smartguys seem to cant seem to read past what they want. Read all the info and realize im talking about i will not be buying federal 147 hydroshoks again and as i stated in all capitols that thats what this post was about this ammo only not all of federal.
i love when people seem to know it all but just is obvious the know it alls dont know anything about the subject.
Here let me get your head out of your cooroo for you for the 10th time.
Point of tgis thread- to show how the 147gr failed to mushroom and since i believe it may have been due to my 9cs short barrel and lack of velocity i will no longer purchase 147gr hydrashock anymore.
Another point- to show how well the win ranger t worked and what an amazing designed bullet and well thought out ammunition and that anyone debating a carry ammo thr 124 +p ranger t is one hell of a defense round.
Do everyone a favor read more than the title and skim of tye OP. And if thats to much for you to do do not post.
Also I WOULD LIKE TO THANK IOWGAN very imformitive and thought out i wish everyone could try and post like you do and if you have any opinions on cheap backyard test i can do to finish my 19 useless rounds of this i have pvt me id like to try things you think would be good informative test and to see hpw this ammo does in an assortment of test. That way i can repost all the info together and have the wammabe smart guys. Not post pointless replys.
Guys ... this thread is going in the wrong direction and the conversation is starting to get to the point of personal attacks. Accordingly, I think it's time to close it down!
The 124gr is designed for good expansion combined with moderate penetration at increased veloscity, where as the 147gr was designed more for penetration with minimal expansion. It's like compareing a 165/185gr +P to a 230gr in 45 ACP and then complaining that the 165/185gr bullet doesnt penetrate as deep as the 230gr, or the 230 doesn't expand as violently as the 165/185gr offering. So before you condem the federal offering try compairing the 124gr offerings side by side, and then draw your conclusions.
That being said my prefered rounds for my SR-9c are the Gold Dot 124gr +P SB HP, or the Corbon 125gr +P HP.
Dude I'm sorry but I think you over reacted a touch.
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