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Speer Golt Dot 135g or Buffalo Bore 158g?

This is a discussion on Speer Golt Dot 135g or Buffalo Bore 158g? within the Ammo Dump forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; I'm trying to decide on the best self-defense load for my SP101 3". I saw a lot of rave reviews for the Speer Gold Dot ...


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Old March 28th, 2011, 08:16 PM   #1
 
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Speer Golt Dot 135g or Buffalo Bore 158g?

I'm trying to decide on the best self-defense load for my SP101 3". I saw a lot of rave reviews for the Speer Gold Dot 135g +P short barrel load, but when I checked the specs I noticed it had only 222 foot-pounds of energy. When I checked the specs on the Buffalo Bore 158g +P, it said the energy was around 351 foot-pounds. Am I missing something about the Speer load?? Is it better because it has less recoil? Is 222 foot-pounds enough energy to stop an attacker?

Seriously, I'd like to know which is considered the more effective round.



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Old March 28th, 2011, 08:19 PM   #2
 
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Are you talking .38 or .357? Not many of the .38's expand right. Have you looked at Corbon DPX?
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Old March 28th, 2011, 08:30 PM   #3
 
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i swear by Gold Dots.

by all accounts, the GD Short Bbl .38 +P expand as advertised.
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Old March 28th, 2011, 10:00 PM   #4
 
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I've shot both brands--either one will kill a bad guy if you hit him in the right spot. That 351 ftlbs comes at a price--Big time recoil from a snubby. If you are at all sensitive to recoil I can almost gurantee you will not like the Buffalo Bore. It's great ammo but that particular +p load IMO should be relegated to full sized guns or to the non recoil shy--you may have better luck in your heavier SP101 than I did in a J frame sized gun with wood grips--recoil was brutal.

Also with regard to what stops someone there is a list out there of various ammo companies and percentages of 1 shot stops on the net--Buffalo Bore isn't on it--could be because the list is dated-and/or not enough attackers have been shot/killed with Buffalo Bore ammo.
Handgun Ammo Stopping Power

I believe SOME of the old data Ed Marshall & Ed Sanow put out was a little flawed and certainly outdated by todays standards

HandGunInfo.com: 357SIG: One-Shot Stops

I have no qualms about carrying the Speer or the non +p Buffalo Bore load though. I normally carry Hornady but my local dealer has been out for a few weeks so the Speer is in it now and I don't feel a bit undergunned.
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Old March 29th, 2011, 02:41 AM   #5
 
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I would think that the Buffalo Bore ammo would be too "hot" for a SD load. Penetration might be excessive.
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Old March 29th, 2011, 05:29 AM   #6
 
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Interesting. Thanks for your opinions! I'm talking about the .38. I've shot the corbon 110g +P and didn't find the recoil bad at all, but I haven't shot the Buffalo Bore yet. How about the Remington 158g +P? I think it's called the "FBI" load. Less brutal than the Buffalo Bore?
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Old March 29th, 2011, 05:40 AM   #7
 
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Is their a reason to getting 38 Special? Reason I ask is usually +P is a premium price. You can get a watered down and cheaper .357 Magnum version probably for cheaper.
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Old March 29th, 2011, 05:41 AM   #8
 
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Any of them are going to work. It just like realstate: Location, Location, Location
I've yet to find anybody willing to try and stop one of my .38 loads, let alone a .22 either.
I understand you have to have confidense in your weapon and ammo. Buy the cheapest right now and shoot them into a 4-5 gallon jugs of water at close range and see what the bullet looks like. Its pretty interesting and fun!
For what its worth, I've carried Gold Dot ammo for many years and have NEVER felt under gunned.
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Old March 29th, 2011, 08:32 AM   #9
 
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The Buffalobores were not accurate in my gun and would keyhole at 25 yards, remington "FBI" loads were accurate but only for about 10 rounds then excessive leading would cause accuracy to deteriorate. Speer SBGDs work very good they are accurate and do have less recoil. I found that winchester and federals "FBI" loads are just enough harder to not leadup like remmies do.
I use SBGDs in my Smith 442 and LCR and either Fed or Win 158 +P LSWCHPs in my SP101.
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Old April 20th, 2017, 06:15 PM   #10
 
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The BB FBI non plus p load is similar to everybody else's plus p version.
The BB plus p FBI load has more energy and power factor (also Taylor knock out power, since the caliber is the same) than the Speer 135 gr GDSB 357 MGN load. This is using data for 2 inch barrel lengths shown on both manufactures website.
I have found that it is easier to load 38SPL from moon clips than it is for 357 MGN from the clips, due to the extra COL. Extraction should be faster also, but it shows up more with loading.


Best,
Rick

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Old April 20th, 2017, 11:15 PM   #11
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You need to take a look at the Remington 125 gr. +P Golden Saber round for your gun. There were tests done on numerous defensive rounds where the ammo was subjected to an average of 5 shots into ballistic Gel and expansion and penetration was measured and average out. The 125 gr. +P golden saber average 14 inches in penetration and expanded to an average of .61. Exceeding many other "defensive ammo in 38 special". This was out of a 2 inch barrel revolver.

These test results for 38 special, 357 mag, 380 acp, 9mm, 40 S&W, 45acp can be found at their web site: http://www.luckygunner.com/lab-self-...allistic-tests. When you get to the site, click on the "Labs" button. Then click on ballistic tests.

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Old April 21st, 2017, 04:01 AM   #12
 
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Don't get wrapped around the axle on numbers. Foot-pounds, muzzle velocity, etc. are just numerical yardsticks that give you the means to make comparisons between cartridges.

And once again, death is not the criteria that we are concerned with when it comes to self-defense. While death is certainly likely if a firearm is used, the goal is to stop the attack.

Knock down power, one shot stop ratings, gelatin penetration depth, bullet expansion or whatever measure you want to apply is all total BS when it comes to handgun ammunition. Handguns are poor substitutes for long guns but it's tough to walk around all day with a rifle held at port arms. So, we compromise and carry handguns instead.

In order to stop an attack the bullet must be able to penetrate deep enough to damage something critical; so penetration is the first criteria. bullet expansion is just the icing on the cake. Bullet expansion can improve the effectiveness of a projectile but it can also limit penetration.

A bullet that doesn't expand but reaches the heart and punches a hole through both walls of the left ventricle - will probably stop that fight pretty quickly. A bullet that doesn't expand but severs the spinal cord just below the skull will stop that fight instantly.
A bullet that does expand perfectly but fails to penetrate deep enough to stop the fight, looks great in a block of gelatin but will be useless when the attacker is still trying to harm you.

Despite the age of the design and its low-tech approach; the old FBI Load still has a lot to offer when fired from a short barreled revolver. The projectile has enough weight and velocity to penetrate fairly well even when fired from short barrels. The soft lead coupled with the hollowpoint helps with bullet expansion at lower velocities but the bullet doesn't fragment or over-expand which would tend to limit penetration. The round has a good track record.

The Speer Gold Dot, Short barrel load takes a different approach but also has a decent track record. (NYPD issued it and had good results back near the end of the revolver days). The 135 grain projectile allows for more initial velocity while staying within the acceptable pressure limits. The bullet is designed to expand well at the lower velocities obtained from a short barrel without over-expanding and therefore under-penetrating.

Both of those cartridges are credible self-defense rounds.

I would go with the old FBI load [158grain +P, LSWCHP] because of its longer track record as a fight stopper. Frankly, a solid 160 grain wadcutter cast from soft lead and driven at 850 fps would probably work just as well, if not better. There's no magic involved folks.
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Old April 21st, 2017, 04:24 AM   #13
 
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buffalo bore does its job. If boar could talk many of the ones I have shot with 45 colt would say buffalo bore works. recoil is heavy for 38 but less than 357
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Old April 21st, 2017, 05:25 AM   #14
 
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Yes yes and yes again. Petrol and Powder is right on the money.

There is no magic bullet, but you can find some that perform better than others. Ballistics and gel tests should be used as a guideline but not the final arbiter on what load you will carry with.

You could spend a lifetime on the ballistics/carry ammo selection merry go round and still end up in the same spot. Pick a good load from a reputable manufacturer and don't overthink it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrol and Powder View Post
Don't get wrapped around the axle on numbers. Foot-pounds, muzzle velocity, etc. are just numerical yardsticks that give you the means to make comparisons between cartridges.

And once again, death is not the criteria that we are concerned with when it comes to self-defense. While death is certainly likely if a firearm is used, the goal is to stop the attack.

Knock down power, one shot stop ratings, gelatin penetration depth, bullet expansion or whatever measure you want to apply is all total BS when it comes to handgun ammunition. Handguns are poor substitutes for long guns but it's tough to walk around all day with a rifle held at port arms. So, we compromise and carry handguns instead.

In order to stop an attack the bullet must be able to penetrate deep enough to damage something critical; so penetration is the first criteria. bullet expansion is just the icing on the cake. Bullet expansion can improve the effectiveness of a projectile but it can also limit penetration.

A bullet that doesn't expand but reaches the heart and punches a hole through both walls of the left ventricle - will probably stop that fight pretty quickly. A bullet that doesn't expand but severs the spinal cord just below the skull will stop that fight instantly.
A bullet that does expand perfectly but fails to penetrate deep enough to stop the fight, looks great in a block of gelatin but will be useless when the attacker is still trying to harm you.

Despite the age of the design and its low-tech approach; the old FBI Load still has a lot to offer when fired from a short barreled revolver. The projectile has enough weight and velocity to penetrate fairly well even when fired from short barrels. The soft lead coupled with the hollowpoint helps with bullet expansion at lower velocities but the bullet doesn't fragment or over-expand which would tend to limit penetration. The round has a good track record.

The Speer Gold Dot, Short barrel load takes a different approach but also has a decent track record. (NYPD issued it and had good results back near the end of the revolver days). The 135 grain projectile allows for more initial velocity while staying within the acceptable pressure limits. The bullet is designed to expand well at the lower velocities obtained from a short barrel without over-expanding and therefore under-penetrating.

Both of those cartridges are credible self-defense rounds.

I would go with the old FBI load [158grain +P, LSWCHP] because of its longer track record as a fight stopper. Frankly, a solid 160 grain wadcutter cast from soft lead and driven at 850 fps would probably work just as well, if not better. There's no magic involved folks.

Last edited by rammerjammer; April 21st, 2017 at 07:36 AM.
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Old April 21st, 2017, 05:28 AM   #15
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If it's the load I'm thinking the Buffalo Bores 38 Spl +P's are soft lead with gas checks and chrony 1,037 FPS ot of my 2 1/4" SP. They will open up and dig deep. It's what I carry.

My recommendation is to carry what will shoot accurately in your SP. Don't worry about stopping power, over penetration, or 100 other internet variables rather focus on shot placement. Remember Wyatt Warp's quote: "Fast is fine but accuracy is final."
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