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new model flat top, .45 lc, 45acp loads

This is a discussion on new model flat top, .45 lc, 45acp loads within the Ammo Dump forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; I have a new model blackhawk .45c,.45 acp with the flat top frame purchased from Lipsies a few years ago. The frame is slightly smaller ...


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Old May 15th, 2017, 09:52 AM   #1
 
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Question new model flat top, .45 lc, 45acp loads

I have a new model blackhawk .45c,.45 acp with the flat top frame purchased from Lipsies a few years ago. The frame is slightly smaller than a .44 rem magnum 200th anniversary model that I have. I want to load some loads that will overcome the factory ballistics. I have some loads from Cor Bon listed as .45 mag +P, 300 grain bullets, 1000 fps. I have contacted Cor Bon to see if the flat top .45 is OK for this ammo but no responses, twice. Can anybody help?
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Old May 15th, 2017, 10:40 AM   #2
 
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You DO NOT want to shoot Ruger Only loads in a 45 Colt Flattop. They are NOT strong enough.
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Old May 15th, 2017, 10:46 AM   #3
 
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I would confirm with the factory for sure before using them. Ruger Only Loads (30K) CANNOT be used in the flattop (same frame/cylinder as New Vaquero). Because the cylinder is smaller and it shoots .45 ACP, it is good to about 23K loads ... BUT NOT 30K. I would stick to SAAMI loads, unless you reload which then you can go a bit warmer.

Here is some reading material.

Hand Loader .45 Colt 2012

Brian Pearce .45 Colt
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Old May 15th, 2017, 06:21 PM   #4
 
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250 grain at 1000 fine 300 grain at 1000 is pushing it.
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Old May 16th, 2017, 03:27 AM   #5
 
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It's as if there should be certifications of guns by stamping them 45 Ruger or more generically 45 +p, having SAAMI cooperate with that nomenclature. The real cannons for the 30k psi load limit could be +p+. These Flat Tops are just begging for someone to blow one up, and the OP is a case in point, while having the good sense to ask first.

Personally, my NMBH 45 is limited for me by the grips. I like a stout load, but at some point the grips aren't suitable, so I just call it good and don't pursue how powerful a load I can shoot. My real cannon for the heavier stuff is a 5.5" Redhawk, a length which Ruger no longer offers in 45. Mine is also ported.

Last edited by at liberty; May 16th, 2017 at 03:45 AM.
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Old May 16th, 2017, 06:30 AM   #6
 
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I don't even use the Colt cylinder in my Flattop, only the ACP cylinder. Even then I mostly shoot 45 Cowboy Specials in it. I leave the 45 Colt rounds to the full size Blackhawks.
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Old May 16th, 2017, 10:49 AM   #7
 
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And I leave the .45 ACP cylinder at home . Only shoot .45 Colt in mine. My loads are 'safe' in all my .45s whether large frame or medium frame. Even my 'woods' load is 'safe' in both frames. I've yet to run into, say, a Cape Buffalo around here that would need a 30K+ load to put down . All of us use our revolvers differently ... All good!!
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Old May 16th, 2017, 12:24 PM   #8
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at liberty, This is part of the reloading hobby where you really have to pay attention or suffer the consequences. The only pressure specification for a SAAMI 45 Colt is 14,000 psi max pressure, which applies to both the gun and the ammo. All reputable reloading manuals subscribe to SAAMI standards so the only time they list loads higher than SAAMI specs is when they have a dedicated section .... like "T/C and Ruger Only". Even then ... they have cautions about the strength of the guns used to shoot the hot loads.

The biggest confusion comes from Ruger itself. They started with a 45 Colt Blackhawk that was strong enough for 30k psi loads. They also made a large frame 45 Colt Vaquero that was the same strength as a Blackhawk. Then the confusion started when Ruger came out with their mid-frame models .... a New Vaquero and a Flattop Blackhawk. These two models have smaller diameter cylinders, which make the walls too thin to support anything with more pressure than a 45 ACP+P .... about 23k psi.

Compliance with SAAMI standards is voluntary so there are a few ammo manufacturers that push their 45 Colt pressures well over SAAMI limits. These hot factory loads are considered safe in heavy frame Vaqueros and original Blackhawks but some of them are just too high pressure for the mid-frame models. Personally, I want to know what pressure my ammo is loaded to .... mostly to avoid a Kaboom but also to avoid excessive wear and intense recoil.

Last edited by Iowegan; May 16th, 2017 at 12:43 PM.
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Old May 16th, 2017, 02:57 PM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
at liberty, This is part of the reloading hobby where you really have to pay attention or suffer the consequences. The only pressure specification for a SAAMI 45 Colt is 14,000 psi max pressure, which applies to both the gun and the ammo. All reputable reloading manuals subscribe to SAAMI standards so the only time they list loads higher than SAAMI specs is when they have a dedicated section .... like "T/C and Ruger Only". Even then ... they have cautions about the strength of the guns used to shoot the hot loads.

The biggest confusion comes from Ruger itself. They started with a 45 Colt Blackhawk that was strong enough for 30k psi loads. They also made a large frame 45 Colt Vaquero that was the same strength as a Blackhawk. Then the confusion started when Ruger came out with their mid-frame models .... a New Vaquero and a Flattop Blackhawk. These two models have smaller diameter cylinders, which make the walls too thin to support anything with more pressure than a 45 ACP+P .... about 23k psi.

Compliance with SAAMI standards is voluntary so there are a few ammo manufacturers that push their 45 Colt pressures well over SAAMI limits. These hot factory loads are considered safe in heavy frame Vaqueros and original Blackhawks but some of them are just too high pressure for the mid-frame models. Personally, I want to know what pressure my ammo is loaded to .... mostly to avoid a Kaboom but also to avoid excessive wear and intense recoil.
I know all that at this point, don't need to be told to pay attention, have example guns from each level, and load the full range of 45 Colt, including rifle. I just felt like commenting that it could have been made easier and still feel that way. The evolution is straightforward enough, but this thread is a good example of the later confusion. I have to admit though that it would be improbable to retroactively stamp +p or +p+ on all those guns that came before the scaled down models.

Last edited by at liberty; May 16th, 2017 at 03:02 PM.
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Old May 17th, 2017, 04:49 AM   #10
 
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"These Flat Tops are just begging for someone to blow one up"

Agree totally.

" . . . it would be improbable to retroactively stamp +p or +p+ on all those guns that came before the scaled down models."

. . . particularly since there's no +P or +P+ SAAMI specification for the .45 Colt. Referring to it is advertising BS and really means nothing, with the possible exception that the loads might exceed SAAMI spec by some unknown value.



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Old May 17th, 2017, 04:57 AM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veeman View Post
I don't even use the Colt cylinder in my Flattop, only the ACP cylinder. Even then I mostly shoot 45 Cowboy Specials in it. I leave the 45 Colt rounds to the full size Blackhawks.
I had the .45 ACP cylinders trimmed so I can also use .45 AR. I think it cycles a bit more smoothly than .45 ACP, and with the mouse fart loads I am using in it, there is no danger of overpressure.
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