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380 in real life

This is a discussion on 380 in real life within the Ammo Dump forums, part of the Firearm Forum category; Myself, I always thought the 380 was like having a Toy Poodle for an attack/guard dog....


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Old March 15th, 2017, 09:44 AM   #46
 
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Myself, I always thought the 380 was like having a Toy Poodle for an attack/guard dog.



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Old March 15th, 2017, 09:49 AM   #47
 
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>>"Like Alfred E. Newman said, what, me worry? Let's see how many recognize that quote."<<
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Old March 15th, 2017, 11:22 AM   #48
 
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Originally Posted by Iowegan View Post
Walkingwolf, The FBI based their reports on several years of emergency room gun shot victim reports as well as autopsies. You can't get much more "real life" than that.

I stated "Stacking the odds in your favor is the best thing you can do". This means choosing a firearm with enough momentum to get the job done, using the proper holsters and ancillary equipment like a spare magazine or speed loader pouch, training with your equipment until reactions are automatic, and keeping your skills honed. If your equipment doesn't work for you, buy something that will. Don't risk your life or the life of a loved one because you got stubborn and didn't face reality."

I suspect the last sentence may apply to you.
The purpose of carrying a gun is not autopsies, it is to stop as threat. That kind of testimony could land a person in the hoosegow. It is proven that just showing a gun WILL most times stop a threat.

Then let's get to the liberty part of this that some people have a problem with. The FBI does not make my choices, and they should not make the choices of others. I would hope that most of us would not defecate in the street during rush hour traffic if the FBI told us to.

I repeat for myself, any gun is better than no gun. IOW I don't care about the FBI, any other agency, or experts, including Ayoob. Never have wasted my money on his bible, why should I waste my money on FBI's BS. My money goes to more practice.

If a lot of people worried more about their situational awareness, this discussion would be worthless. Most assaults happen because criminals are looking for easy targets, they confirm this. I have never heard a study where the caliber of the gun was a factor for criminals. If you know of one please cite it.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 11:55 AM   #49
 
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There are a lot of variables, for instance 90gr Buffalo Bore ammo out of a LC380 is superior to most 38 SPL. ammo out of a 642... yet many feel comfortable with a snubbie....

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Old March 15th, 2017, 12:06 PM   #50
 
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There are a lot of variables, for instance 90gr Buffalo Bore ammo out of a LC9 is superior to most 38 SPL. ammo out of a 642... yet many feel comfortable with a snubbie....
There in a nutshell is the problem with threads like this, there are a lot of variables, a lot of choices. If one solution for all was out there we would not have these discussions. One thing everybody, or mostly agree on a long gun is better than a handgun in a gun fight. Yet nobody is advocating concealing a long gun. The rest of this is just who's pecker is bigger banter.

The basis of the OP's decision should be based on factors relevant to him, not us. Such things as how he will carry, where he will carry. Comfort of carry, if pain shooting a small 500 S&W, or .50 BMG.

I myself do not carry a 380, because I open carry. But even then my loads are moderate, far from the knocking the attacker off is feet by yards that we get the impression from some that their super calibers can do.

My wife does carry a 380, for her purse it is the caliber for the size of gun she carries. Her open carry is also a small caliber, Colt Police Positive 32-20, it is what she likes to shoot, and carry. Because of the age of the gun it is being switched out for a 380 Pavona.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 12:27 PM   #51
 
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I've watched all the" ammo quest" tests and read a lot of the thread wars over JHP vs FMJ in .380 . My question is , does anyone have any personal experience with real world situations ? Either with animals or self defense .
Aside from all the "opinions" stated in this thread.............has anyone really answered the OP's question?

I may have missed it, but I don't think it has as of yet.




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Old March 15th, 2017, 12:41 PM   #52
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I don't have a beef with a 380 Auto. In some situations it may be a good solution but in nearly all situations, a 357 Mag or 45 ACP is a much better solution.

I guess my main beef is people that go through life with their head buried in the sand. Maybe the only gun they own is a 380 (or smaller) and they feel they have to justify their selection. I take concealed carry or open carry as a very serious issue and would not compromise my family's safety by using a substandard cartridge, gun, or ancillary equipment.

I know some of you wouldn't believe anything that came from the FBI so just ignore the rest of this paragraph. FBI studies indicate it takes a bad guy about 3 seconds to make a decision to shoot. So .... once you have alerted the bad guy by fumbling in your pants pocket for your pistol then having to make your gun ready to shoot, you have far exceeded the "3 second rule" .... probably closer to 10 seconds, meaning you would likely get shot before your gun is ready. Try this simple exercise with an unloaded gun: Have someone time you with a stop watch. Upon their command to go .... draw your concealed carry firearm, make it ready to dry fire by sweeping the safety off, chambering a pretend cartridge (if you carry with an empty chamber), cock the hammer if needed, then point it at an imaginary bad guy and dry fire. If it takes you longer than 3 seconds, likely you would be toast. Try the same scenario while sitting. In my opinion, it's not just the gun, or the cartridge, or the equipment, or how you carry .... it's how you train so everything plays together to stop an attack.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 12:47 PM   #53
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caiber argument ? I thought long and hard whether to even weigh in.


But there is absolutely NO WAY Im going to accept that a 9mm has a 45% rate and a 357 a 85% rate.
Or that a .38 and a 9mm are the same.

That FBI data seems unreasonable at best.

John R's chart also seems flawed.

No way I would ever believe a .32 or 380 has a better stopping rate than mostly EVERYTHING else. Thats just impossible.

Take laiders story about the woman who emptied a .380 into her husband and laider sent him home with BANDAIDES on the wounds.

Ive seen a 250 lb body builder type get dropped in one shot from a 22 mag deringer.
And guys who couldnt hit the side of a barn with a 500 S&W.

At the end of the day,, ANY gun is better than NO gun,, just make sure you are proficient with the weapon and can hit what the hell ur aiming at.

As Wyatt Earp said,,, fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 01:03 PM   #54
 
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John R's chart also seems flawed.
That's why I included a link to the whole article, you have to read the whole article to understand what the data tells us. That is also, by the way, why any public opinion poll must be taken with a huge grain of salt; you have to understand the data to understand the results.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866
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Old March 15th, 2017, 01:15 PM   #55
 
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Aside from all the "opinions" stated in this thread.............has anyone really answered the OP's question?

I may have missed it, but I don't think it has as of yet.




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I did, though the round I used was a 9X18, only a little more velocity than a 380. It was a one shot stop of a very large charging pit bull. The dog had gotten on my property, killed several chickens, when I confronted the dog he charged. One shot to his spine stopped him, not kill immediately but did stop. In my book a stop is all that matters.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 01:35 PM   #56
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Walkingwolf, Seems all you want to do is argue about things that you know nothing about. In any self defense scenario, there's always a risk of death .... that's why they call it "use of deadly force". Autopsies reveal many things .... such as the location and size of the wound(s), penetration, and cartridge used. Gun shot residue (GSR) will help determine the distance much better than an eye witness as will the angle of the bullet path. The type of clothing can also be used in conjunction with wounds to determine its influence. When gunshot victims are rushed to a hospital, much of the actual forensic evidence is destroyed by the time a pathologist can get to the victim. The doctors and nurses have already removed clothing, bandaged up the wounds, and cleaned up any GSR evidence. Fact is .... autopsies reveal a lot more information about the effectiveness of a firearm/cartridge than live victims. I've been to several gruesome autopsies and all I can say is .... it's not just the person's surface areas that get examined ..... something you can't examine with live victims.

When forensic statistics are collected and examined, it makes the outcome of nearly all armed confrontations very predictable. If you are wise enough to use these statistics to your advantage, it could mean the difference of surviving an attack ... or not.

Mark204, Read post #5 .... it says "At close distances, the 380 has enough power to get the job done no matter what the bad guy is wearing. You can safely take it a step farther and use JHPs for summer carry where clothing is lighter and FMJ for winter clothing where more penetration is needed." Anything more about bullet selection is mostly hype created by the bullet manufacturer's advertising. Every brand of bullet can't be the best .... no one bullet is best in all circumstances. All types and brands of bullets are going to make the bad guy hurt like hell ..... but is it enough to stop the fight or will the bad guy recover enough to shoot you? As I noted earlier in post #5 .... it's all about the accuracy of your crystal ball.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 01:48 PM   #57
 
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Making decision that affect myself is not arguing. Demanding all others submit to your will is arguing, and very foolish. Not to mention not healthy.

The fact is I have experience, real experience, you chose to ignore it because it does not fit your preaching.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 01:48 PM   #58
 
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[QUOTE=Walkingwolf;2953713]I did, though the round I used was a 9X18, only a little more velocity than a 380. It was a one shot stop of a very large charging pit bull. The dog had gotten on my property, killed several chickens, when I confronted the dog he charged. One shot to his spine stopped him, not kill immediately but did stop. In my book a stop is all that matters.[/QUOTE


Sorry...............I must have missed it amongst all the "opinion" here.




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Old March 15th, 2017, 01:53 PM   #59
 
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[QUOTE=Mark204;2953865]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingwolf View Post
I did, though the round I used was a 9X18, only a little more velocity than a 380. It was a one shot stop of a very large charging pit bull. The dog had gotten on my property, killed several chickens, when I confronted the dog he charged. One shot to his spine stopped him, not kill immediately but did stop. In my book a stop is all that matters.[/QUOTE


Sorry...............I must have missed it amongst all the "opinion" here.




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That's OK, stuff happens. But my opinion has always been for myself, kinda selfish, but keeps me sane. I encourage others to make decisions on their own, and not be overly influenced by others, and that includes my opinion.

I am a firm believer in personal choice, and responsibility. Nobody here is going to be able to take responsibility for someone's choice. Neither is the FBI, or any other government agent. That is on each of us.
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Old March 15th, 2017, 02:33 PM   #60
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JohnR2, I read your article in its entirety and found some cartridges with a large sample rate (ie 9mm) where the author came away with similar results as the FBI data .... he just presented them differently. BTW, instead of hundreds of gunshot victims, the FBI study took more than 5 years to complete and involved thousands of victims nation wide .... alive or dead. No suicides, no war wounds, just victims or perpetrators in attacks involving firearms.

Look at the one-shot-stop for a 9mm (large sample rate of 456) .... 34%. This is actually less effective than the FBI's numbers of 45% but the number of rounds until incapacitation is about the same with the FBI's statistic of 2.6 rounds hitting the victim.

I found the stats for most of the cartridges were totally unrealistic. Especially a 32 cal where the sample rate was only 25 and the 45 ACP where the one-shot-stop was only 39%. In other words, garbage in .... garbage out. Before any study can be accurate, it must have a large sample rate and all statistics must be based on the same criteria. I find it impossible to believe a 44 Mag only had a one-shot-stop of 59% .... way under the FBI's prediction of 95% and a 25 ACP had a one-shot-stop of 30% versus less than 10% in the FBI study.

I took a statistics class in college .... it taught you how to present data in such a manner where it is truthful .... but it twists the meaning to conform to the presenter's objective. In this case, I don't doubt the raw information collected .... it's how that information was analyzed and presented. Sorry, I just can't buy Ellifritz's results .... but it's a free country so believe what you want.
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