Hawkeye913

I found this article recently, undated but full of surprises (to me anyway). Hope it's still relevent to today's ammo.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot27.htm

I'm interested in hearing your comments. If this is, in fact, true then I'm buyin' me a snubbie!

WheelyGuy

Interesting tests. But one could argue that shooting jugs full of water does not provide a realistic prediction of how these rounds would work in the real world. Water is not ballistic gel, and the gel is supposed to be the most accurate substitute for an actual flesh and blood bad guy.

By any other accounts I have read, the 40 should beat the 38 all around as far as penetration goes.

The debate rages on.

Hawkeye913

That's what I always thought Wheely. I was totally surprised by the results. Maybe I should just stick with my Steyr .40 and be done with it.

TXDMERC

i have done tests with water jugs, then compared it to the gel tests online, it is close , i would say 3 water jugs equals 12 inches of penetration in 10 percent gelatin.

fastlane604

Do you just line the jugs up and shoot through them? It was hard to tell from the site if there was anything between the towell and the first jug?

Pat-inCO

Before anyone gets their knickers in a knott about testing procedures, take a look at some of the older tests. From what I can see he has done a good job of evolving his tests into a really valid approach. The Box O' Truth

Pay special attention to the "Sand Box O Truth" (#7) and the "Rags O Truth" (#8), since they include the 9mm and the .45ACP in their comparisons. In my opinion, those two tests alone validate many of his conclusions.

ESPECIALLY the last one that says a bad day at the range is far better than any day at work!

Well, everyone has their own opinion, but I have 1911s (my favorite) in 3", 4" and 5". I did some Chrono' work with mine and found:
- - - 5" Results
* 230Gr? Remington HP - - 855fps
* 230Gr Remington Ball - - 851fps
*- 185Gr Nosler HP (hand load) - - 998fps < - - -
Note: I tried two different 5" models and got results that differed in the
10fps range (I was AMAZED at the consistency between guns [Kimber SIS]).

- - - 4" Results
* 230Gr Remington Ball - - 803fps
* 185Gr Nosler HP (reload) - - 908fps

- - - 3" Results
* 230Gr Remington Ball - - 757fps
* 185Gr Nosler HP (reload) - - 865fps < - - -

YMMV.


P.S. That makes the LCR look really good!

Brettov

You can't go wrong with a .40 or a .45

WheelyGuy

For practical purposes, I don't feel under-gunned when carrying nothing but a 38 snubbie.

Sure, I'd feel much better armed toting a hi-cap 9 or 40, or maybe even a 357. But life is full of trade offs. And from all accounts that I've read, 98% of the time just having a shootin' iron with you when needed is all that is necessary. The BG, being a natural coward, will quickly retreat when he sees his prey is not an easy mark.

And face it, even if you don't get the full 12 inches plus penetration in ballistic gel out of your round, ANY hit will most likely disrupt or stop the attacker, and that is what you really want.

Nothing is 100%. There are stories of enemy soldiers in the field being hit with 5.56 mm rounds from M16's that seem to be unaffected by the hit, and that round is far more potent than any practical handgun round. There are also many stories of deaths caused by 22's and 32's and makarovs.

Unless you're a LEO or soldier, your best defense is awareness and avoidance. But then I'm sure we all know that already.

CorneliusIII

I subscribe to the Box O' Truth newsletter. It's a great site; good tests and fun to read.

Hawkeye913

I'm all for THAT Wheely...avoidence! My biggest fear, should the situation ever arise, is taking too long to decide to pull the trigger. And I agree about getting hit by any size round. They can laugh at a .22 if they want, but I ain't volunteering to take one just to see if it works.