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Wadcutter as defensive round?

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Old November 23rd, 2016, 02:43 PM   #16
 
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Check with an Attorney first



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Old November 23rd, 2016, 02:50 PM   #17
 
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I have loaded some plated wadcutters in the 357 and 38. Both are very nice at 25 yards and as stated by Iowegan, an ER doctor friend of mine said that they do create probably the nastiest wound channel once inside. Very hard to try to successfully fix.
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Old November 23rd, 2016, 04:05 PM   #18
 
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All my 32 and 38 revolvers are loaded with hand loads WC. Reloads are hand loads semi SWC.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 06:42 AM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Len917 View Post
Check with an Attorney first


OK . . . let's hear the explanation for that.

Betcha I can predict at least a couple of 'em since they've been kicking around for years.

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Old November 24th, 2016, 07:31 AM   #20
 
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Its what I practice with and carry in 38spl or 357 mag it's all you need.

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Old November 24th, 2016, 07:41 AM   #21
 
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What's great about wadcutters is that they are usually lower velocity. That means recoil is very low and is easy to double tap or even triple tap and still be on target in a lot less time. I have used them for butchering animals and they do cut nice tunnels that tend to bleed very good. as state the wounds don't close up. even in fatty tissue they leave a nice bleed tunnel
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Old November 24th, 2016, 09:19 AM   #22
 
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Originally Posted by Planetcat View Post
At least thick clothing and denim won't be a problem using a wadcutter. I wouldn't want to get shot by one.
I personally wouldn't want to get shot by anything!!!

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Old November 24th, 2016, 06:44 PM   #23
 
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Originally Posted by Len917 View Post
Check with an Attorney first
I did - she (assistant state attorney general) said that if your intent was to use deadly force and you were justified in using deadly force, then there is no increased legal risk in using ammunition that is intended to be more lethal.

However, she did say that a prosecuting attorney (or plaintiff's attorney in a civil case) could try to use your choice of ammunition to claim that you sought out the encounter - that you wanted to entice or provoke someone into attacking you in order to act out your sick fantasy of killing a criminal.

For that reason, don't blab to the cops that you loaded wadcutters because they "cause more damage". A more reasonable explanation - and one that holds for all hollowpoint ammunition as well - is that you wanted to limit the chance of over-penetration so as to reduce the risk to innocent bystanders.

In reality (i.e. in the ER and in surgery), wadcutters probably aren't going to kill or incapacitate much quicker than hollowpoints. Speaking as someone who has had his hands in a lot of gunshot wound vicitims, there are few places in the human body that will give you "one shot stops", and in those areas, it doesn't much matter if you punch a neat, sharp hole or shove a round-nosed slug through bluntly. Yes, they might bleed out a tad quicker with a wadcutter, but that's going to be in five or ten minutes, which gives them more than enough time to ruin your day.

I use a cast wadcutter in my .44 Spl Charter Arms Bulldog because I worry that even the high-tech hollow points won't open up and may over-penetrate. Or worse, they might open up too fast and stop short of the "vital organs".

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Old November 25th, 2016, 04:33 AM   #24
 
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I shoot 158gr SWC from my 2 revolvers but when I carry the J-3"bbl, I use 125 gr HP which are very legal in PA. Therefore if I ever have to use it in self defense, I have less chance of a legal problem.
Same with my 9mm. I reload and shoot CMJ bullets, but for carry its factory HP
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Old November 25th, 2016, 05:06 AM   #25
 
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Which bullets are illegal in PA?
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Old November 25th, 2016, 06:36 AM   #26
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Let's not get into the legal issues with ammo .... that's not what this forum is for.
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Old November 25th, 2016, 07:10 AM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by ngashooter View Post
...We were amateur ballistics testers as we roamed the Everglades shooting coral rocks, clumps of dried mud, and cypress trees. The other boy had a Walther P-38 with Euro-Spec (hot) 9mmFMJ ammo while I had a short barreled .38 with wadcutters. Man was I disappointed in the performance of those .38 loads. They were great on paper or tin cans but failed to penetrate anything harder.
Luckily, when I entered high school I met a guy who had a 6" stainless Security Six .357 and his own car. When my neighbor found out I was shooting regularly he did something amazing. He brought out a Remington-Rand 1911A1 and an ammo can full of WWII vintage hardball. I could shoot all I wanted as long as I returned the gun clean. Those two guns changed my life. For years if it wasn't a magnum or a .45 I had no use for it. I use many calibers now, and reload many kinds of bullets. For me the low velocity .38 wadcutter is a paper-puncher and no more.
Amateur ballistic testing...

Coral rocks, dried mud, and cypress trees are not the same as a live human. So now, years later, do you have 'any use' for something that's not "a magnum or a .45"?

Sounds like the typical 'gun lore' opinion: "The .270 sucks for hunting". "Why would you say that"? "Well... a buncha years ago, my cousin's friend's brother-in-law shot a deer with one and it ran for a bit before dying. So it sucks..." Hmmmm.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 11:30 AM   #28
 
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My Dad loaded wadcutters for his carry weapon, a S&W .357 Highway Patrolman. That was about 50-60 years ago.
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Old November 26th, 2016, 12:44 PM   #29
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firescout View Post
Amateur ballistic testing...

Coral rocks, dried mud, and cypress trees are not the same as a live human. So now, years later, do you have 'any use' for something that's not "a magnum or a .45"?

Sounds like the typical 'gun lore' opinion: "The .270 sucks for hunting". "Why would you say that"? "Well... a buncha years ago, my cousin's friend's brother-in-law shot a deer with one and it ran for a bit before dying. So it sucks..." Hmmmm.
Yes, I agree. Saying a wadcutter is only good for punching paper is a little incorrect. Paper punching is a wad cutters first role. I have used wad cutters on rabbits but they are not much good past about 20 to 25 yards. Maybe a hit, maybe not. 20 yards are accurate and on a rabbit and they bleed out fast. REAL FAST! Ball ammo through a rabbit or ground squirrel and they run away most of the time (BALL AMMO SHOULD NOT BE USED FOR HUNTING BECAUSE THE ANIMAL SUFFERS GREATLY). A wad cutter? The animals don't make it too far. The semi wad cutter is nice for reaching out, breaking bone and cutting a nice hole. I am a fan of the semi wadcutter.

The wad cutter is limited in effective range and penetration. Much past 25 yards and they begin to tumble. I cannot say they are or are not able to penetrate bone because I have not used them on anything more than a critter but I have read where medium sized animals have been hit in the head and they penetrated just fine ending the animals life.

I would never recommend a wad cutter for self defense. However, if that was all I had and I just focused on center of mass shots? Like I said earlier, if a person was shot with a wad cutter in an emergency room that was staffed with emergency personal I would be surprised of they could save them. The reason is if the heart is not hit the adrenaline kicks in and the heart immediately pumps the blood through a perfectly cut hole. They will not last long. If the heart is hit, game over!

Too many times I have shot an animal that spun to run and immediately dropped. After cleaning it for dinner the only hole I could find was a simple breast hit. No vitals were hit and the animal died quickly.

As for mud I have no experience with that.

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Old November 26th, 2016, 12:52 PM   #30
 
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There's merit to using solid wadcutter as a defensive round, particularly with a soft alloy.

As a 38 Special and when fired from a short barrel, some people feel it is an excellent SD round.
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